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Jeff York  0:14 
Welcome to creative distillation where we distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. I'm your host, Jeff York, research director at the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the Leeds School of Business at the University of Colorado Boulder. Coming to you live this week with my co host as always, like you we're not live at all. That's not a total lie. We are alive. We are alive. I guess it's just my excitement got the best of me because we're doing our first podcast from on location in Boulder since the pandemic ended. Brad It is wonderful to be here, my co host here as always Brad Warner.

Brad Werner  0:47 
Yep. And so I am Brad Warner. I am the Faculty Director for entrepreneurship at the Deming Center at the University of Colorado lead School of Business. But more importantly, and I'm an entrepreneur. And even more importantly than that Jeff being live here, but being in the distillery with a new friend Allaster from Boulder spirits is really, really exciting. I walked in, I was in a really mood. I'm just I'm just waiting for the first pour.

Jeff York  1:13 
Yeah. So So Brian's quote was, you know, with the day I'm having going somewhere where I can have a drink. That's just really, you know, that's perfect for today. I was like, as opposed to other days, Brad. So, but I know this is awesome. We're in this building called vapor distilling. We'll learn more about that. But we're here to learn about bolder spirits with our guests this month are this week or whatever time lapses. But again, I just want to focus for just a second on this. Like for good God, how long has it been a year and a half since we did one of these like on location?

Brad Werner  1:43 
I mean, it's it's unbelievable. I think just even the energy I'm feeling already is a big difference, right? I'm sick of looking at both of you guys through zoom.

Jeff York  1:53 
I'm in a lovely mood, because we're here with Alistair Brogan. Oh, yeah, Alistair, welcome.

Brad Werner  1:56 
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Jeff York  1:58 
Oh, it's wonderful. So I was dry, I would describe your role. We know that you are the proprietor and owner of Boulder spirits, but you're also the distiller correct.

Alastair Brogan2:06 
Part time a guard time. We've got two other distillers here we've got Graham who actually is also Scottish. And then we've got Justin as well. So I'm more now gone from the distilling into more trying to sell the product right making it you could see is maybe the easier part harder part is then selling it and selling more of it.

Jeff York  2:27 
Sure, sure. This is a beautiful location. I mean, I wish folks could see as we're like, surrounded by barrels and and bags of this is the

Brad Werner  2:36 
coolest spot we've ever actually sat. Right We have fold out tables amongst casts. I mean, tiled four and five. Hi, this is really really incredible. And really creative space. Well, I

Jeff York  2:47 
knew Brad was gonna be like a kid in the candy. We got here so so Alastair, maybe we should just have a drink straight up. Because I mean, we've been looking at these beautiful bottles and learning about this stuff. So maybe we should say something just right away so that because otherwise Brad's gonna get very antsy, like, Okay,

Alastair Brogan3:02 
well, we'll just launch straight into it. So here is an American single malt whiskey.

Jeff York  3:08 
Alright, so already, that's interesting. And American, you were telling us earlier, there's a huge difference between an American single malt whiskey and what people commonly call scotch.

Alastair Brogan3:17 
Yeah, I mean, a single malt whiskey throughout the world is going to be incredibly different no matter where you are. And there's a whole host of reasons for that. It can be the climate, it can be the water the US it can be the still the US the green, the yeast, really, every single country in every single area is uniquely different. scotch scotch, because like champagne, champagne, but that doesn't mean that the NSA have the best. They have a high quality spirit. But you know, the Japanese, the Taiwanese, the Germans, and hopefully no, the Americans are no doing it. As good as anywhere around the world.

Brad Werner  3:54 
Would you say that America is there yet?

Alastair Brogan3:56 
No, Americans go a long way to go. Here's the thing. The Tax and Trade Bureau are hopefully this year going to give us what's called a standard of identity. Because at the moment, believe it or not, American single malt whiskey is not a category. It's malt whiskey. So when you go into the liquor store, when you see malt whiskey, 51%, malted barley, and then some other grain, whereas it's not a category here yet is going to be there is 150 distilleries through the US petitioning Tax and Trade Bureau. It's going to happen because guess what the big guys the Purnell records, the Diaz years, they are pumping a lot of money to get this as a recognized category because they know that there are some phenomenal single malt whiskies in the US.

Jeff York  4:39 
Well, yeah, I mean, what we're tasting right now is one of them. This is just so smooth. Wow.

Brad Werner  4:45 
Yeah, I'm amazed Actually,

Alastair Brogan4:47 
there are even in Colorado, single malt whiskies and each one of them is unique. Every one of them is very different. And it's just like scotch whiskey. You know, you can have distilleries literally next door to each other and then They are making dramatically different single malt whiskies, but they have a market for each other.

Jeff York  5:05  
So you said this is just what we would call I don't know if I'm using the right terminology, not straight whiskey because as Yon

Alastair Brogan5:12 
St. Whiskey is in the US, when you put the word st it means it's been two years in the bar, right? And really, that's one of the few designations that you can have other than putting in each statement. You have bottled and bond, which we'll talk about later. Sorry, I had one of those. Yeah, this street is a two years and a lot of whiskies, especially Bourbons, and rise there, oh, two years almost on the day, because they're big, heavy grains that maybe doesn't require that length of time. malted barley is more delicate or depth and complexity. So none of our whiskies come out before three years, okay, but remember, they go into new barrels and as the big big difference, right, as opposed to most of the world use x bourbon bottles. Now see, this

Jeff York  5:57 
is fascinating to me because like, okay, you're gonna have to educate me here, but my understanding bourbon is designated. I've seen people use the label bourbon, they're not supposed to unless it's distilled and aged in Kentucky, correct.

Alastair Brogan6:11 
Wrong, wrong. Love this. I love this because our people from Kentucky will say this.

Jeff York  6:18 
Yes, yes, that's where I heard it. In Kentucky. They told me. They also gave me a huge glass of bourbon.

Alastair Brogan6:25 
He started making bourbon suits half America making bourbon. Yeah. So they've never got that designation to get that designation. It's not a real designation. Not really. That's where a lot of the bourbon comes from. Yeah, but there's as good and some spectacular Bourbons outside. Oh,

Jeff York  6:41 
sure. Yeah. Well, our favorites is from up in Fort Collins like Oh, yeah. So and you make bourbon as well.

Alastair Brogan6:47 
Yeah, we do. We do. Well, we do a Singapore whiskey. We do arrange a Singapore whiskies, but also, we do three Bourbons, but Bourbons with a difference. And the the drink of America is still bourbon. Yeah. single malt whiskey is starting to age into that. But the whole history of farming and alcohol has been around corn. So bourbon, chord 51 corn, most Bourbons, 70 80%, corn, corn and rye are the main ingredients for most American whiskies. Big flavors, big tastes. Yeah.

Jeff York  7:23 
So this is what this is why we were talking about this earlier. I just think it's fascinating. So I think most Americans, when they think about Scottish single malt whiskey, they think about scotch like, wow, that goes so far back. That's like an ancient beverage. And bourbon is like a newer thing like, you know, a new American thing. But you're telling me that most of this scotch whiskey what we think of a scotch

Alastair Brogan7:46 
is actually aged in bourbon barrels. Most of it is Asian bourbon barrels. Because the Scots when they were the sharing port, and the wine barrels weren't coming across in the same numbers, as the single malt whiskey distilleries. Were using a needed America where they just introduced the law that had to be first use barrels. Ah, then when they finished with them, they would literally done them. Yeah, the market was created. So a market was created by the Scots and bringing them across. Yeah, but it gives you a different type of whiskey. Yeah, and I joke to some my friends you got to remember is that all scotch whiskey, sorry, a lot of scotch whiskey because they don't all use experiment. borrow some of them start and finish in wine barrel certain, you know, share your port bottles. Yeah. So those start and finish life in that but the most of them experiment barrels. Yeah. And with all that bourbon, it sits in the wood that gets transported all scotch whiskey has more scotch whiskey has a level of bourbon infused, which is really, I find quite I don't don't talk about that to discuss. Yeah.

Brad Werner  8:51 
Here's a question I have. And I wish I could I wish people could see what we're looking at. So I'm looking over our shoulder, and I see seven different bottles on the table opened and ready to pour. Now, I had businesses in the wine country, and there's always a certain progression for wines. Does that go the same way when we're doing a whiskey tasting?

Alastair Brogan9:11 
Yes, no, I try and do the whiskey tasting is either have a progression, so the flavors build. Or alternatively, in all the tours I do, and we do here we try and get contrasts. So the contrast between a single malt whiskey 100% malted barley, and a bourbon that has 51 corn, and I like to sort of show people that difference between them. I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do you guys, but you know, like to see those contrasts between them. Because most of what we have here, especially in the Singapore whiskies is, their expressions there's there's an added aware, so whether it be port cost, finish, shared cost finish, we've even got a peated single malt whiskey here, bottled and bond, which just is a bit of a more of a progression in the age. And the ABV so I just like to give those sort of contrast between each one

Brad Werner  10:06 
I have to tell you folks if you're ever in bourbon or ever in bourbon I'm in bourbon bourbon have an M if you're ever in colder vapor distillery and bolder spirits is a hidden gem I would highly recommend coming here I don't say that much but I'd really think that the school introduce yourself to Alastair have them talk you through it because you can tell the passion that's in his in his blood too. So this is just really

Jeff York  10:29 
they can they can find you on the web under and your role or spirits or vapors. They want to come visit Yeah, absolutely. I know that's how I found it days it started tucked away in a little corner here boulder we were talking about that earlier. Don't trust Google. But yeah, well no. When you look when you go with Google, you get to a parking lot drive out of that parking lot and drive east and you'll see a massive sign like the size of a billboard says vapor destroyed and you'll feel like an idiot just like I did because I couldn't find it. So seriously, you've got a fantastic bar tasting room this place just it just the love of the craft that permeates it is palpable. You can feel it here. So what else should we try? So

Alastair Brogan11:05 
okay, so we had our Singapore whiskey 100% malted barley, why now do know I've made my decision. Okay, I'm going to flip now from the single malt whiskey to our bourbon. Okay, now the bourbon we do something a little different here with our bourbon. Most Bourbons as I was saying earlier, 70% corn heat in sweet 20%. Right, earthy and spacey, and maybe 5%. malted barley, most American distilleries use multi barley in very small quantities, normally single figures. What we wanted to do is bring malted barley in is an actual taste profile to the bourbon. So can that hit and sweet down? Which being European, you know, we struggle with that ruin 10 seats and sweet go down, but add another profile to it. So malted barley, and, you know, sadly, him and I asked a lot of really tough, eminent bourbon makers, why they don't use multi barley as a flavoring. I get the same answers I get from the Scotch whisky distilleries when I asked them a question. And the answer is normally sadly, that's the way we've always No, really. So it's not really that's not an answer.

Jeff York  12:14 
Cash is gonna be money because corn is cheap. Like I mean, that's.

Alastair Brogan12:19 
There's still a lot of green distilleries in Europe. So they are making the corns in the rise and blending it. Sure, sure. You know, the great thing about you know, Colorado is 100 distilleries, the US 2200 craft distilleries is that we've got that ability to play and mess around. And we can come up with some great creations. No, I hasten to add some of those great creations are not very commercial. So you do have to try and wind your way back to something that is going to appeal to the commercial side. But this bourbon is our number one seller it is. It is because you know at the end of the day, Americans are still bourbon lovers until I managed to change domains. There's still bourbon lovers is still our number one is a go to for a lot of people. But for me this is just can that heat and sweet and a little bit more. another layer of complexity, it

Jeff York  13:15 
doesn't have the the almost cloying front end sweetness that you get like Elijah Craig or whatever, you know, bourbon Maker's Mark.

Alastair Brogan13:26 
Again, the American palate tends to lean towards that sweeter side of it. This is and this is in corn really essentially is the sweetness is coming out from from the green and also the barrel. So yes, you're right, it's a little bit less sweet. The sweetness you're getting is a from the corn but also be from that carmelization of the sugars in the bottle. Right, right.

Brad Werner  13:48 
The other thing that I would say is, first of all, it's very, very smooth. And there are many American Bourbons that tastes great, but then they die in your mouth. And this is not dying is that Jeff has been a beer judge. I'm just a drinker.

Alastair Brogan14:05 
You're neon head there. What you're trying for is you're trying to get mouthfeel number one, but you're also looking for a way to stay on the pilot for a long time. When I think of beer, sadly, I think of you take a set. It's gone. And you go take another step two seconds later, what we try and achieve them always give me constraint achieve. Did you take a sip? You sit there you enjoy it stays with you for a while, and then it's maybe 30 seconds between the steps rather than five seconds, which is good. So yeah, that's what we try and achieve. Yes. mouthfeel great. Or bourbon? Yes, stays there. But some of the other voices we've got a feel stare for even longer. And it really sort of malted barley I think stays a bit longer than Bourbons.

Jeff York  14:52 
Yeah, okay. It does. Um,

Brad Werner  14:55 
are you feeling that? Oh, Jeff. Oh,

Jeff York  14:56 
no, no, no, it definitely lingers, like I mean, and I was getting like, up I get like almost like a weedy kind of flavor in the background a little bit. I don't know. That's just one tasting. I mean, it's it's really nice.

Brad Werner  15:07 
It is very nice. So tell us a little bit about the background of the business. Yeah. How did you even get into

Jeff York  15:13 
a Scotsman come to be making American single malt whiskey here in Boulder, Colorado?

Alastair Brogan15:18 
Oh, long story, but I think the first point was, and one of the reasons I'm here is my wife's American and I took her back to Scotland. She suffered a war with the rain and the snow. dam this and I saw my business in 2009. And was it a liquor business? No, it was actually a fuel distribution, business car and fuel card processing and saw the unexpected into those name, made the decision come to the US. I needed to have a job I needed to have a hobby. My hobby was going to be distilling, but they quickly I realized because I bought such a big proceeds corporate still take over my life is this one we saw earlier? Yeah. I bought I bought after my

Brad Werner  16:08 
American Dreams. You work your butt off, you sell your business and then you go and you just stole something.

Jeff York  16:14 
Absolutely.

Alastair Brogan16:16 
So I really wanted to do this as a hobby but I got involved with before vapor disability was was whiskey, it was a gin company. So I got involved great guy, Ted Palmer, who's more of a brewer but you loved the he distilled gin. I really wanted to lay down my barrels of whiskey did that for four or five years, worked with the company then bought the company out to progress with the whiskey. So the whiskey only really came out to two years ago. Okay. And that really is the future of of this business. Because here's the thing, vodkas and gins Yeah, like yours are dominoes. Exactly. Every every state has 20 or 30 of them. Yeah, that's right. So whiskies is a unique and I was able to put my real standpoint,

Brad Werner  16:58 
but you just mentioned that there's 100 distilleries in Colorado. So how do you get known how do you make a difference? What is your differentiation between the rest of the rest of your peers?

Alastair Brogan17:08 
Well, with the 100 I would say that maybe only about 1520 orders are doing a whiskey. Okay, that has got an aged whiskey that's coming out. We are different because we are doing a single malt whiskey. We're different because of our high malted barley content and amongst the whiskey people of Colorado. Hi, I'm pretty I'm not gonna say surprised but pretty pleased at how, how knowledgeable that they are. And especially amongst the craft drinkers, which you know, us wait is only 3% of the consumers, right? They really know their whiskies. And the liquor stores even more the liquor stores, we do do a lot of single barrel sales into the liquor stores. And I tell you, these guys know their stuff, they come up here, we'll pick bottles, they'll assess what proof they want, they'll assess which what they want and then they then sell and promote it in their liquor store. So is this like Hazel's Hazel's Argonaut, there's probably about 30 liquor stores in Colorado that will do their own single bar selections. And you know, we're selling bottles as far as Nebraska and Canada. Really cool barrels, a fourth one is just about to go to Nebraska, to whiskey clubs to Florida. You know, we're selling a lot of individual bottles that have been selected by people. single bottle selections, and people are pretty knowledge.

Brad Werner  18:27 
You know, My son is getting married in October, maybe I should do something. You know, what do I have to agree with you? So if you don't know Hazel's, Hazel's is a warehouse of liquor. But when I browse the whiskey bourbon aisles, the people that are working there really know what the hell

Alastair Brogan18:44 
and they've got to be your best salesman. They are. And you know, we were selling through a lot of whiskey in certain stores and not so much. But if you educate the salespeople in the floor, and they become a fan of yours, then it really takes off. And there are there's probably, I think there's 1200 liquor stores in Colorado. And there's a percentage of them that and we all know who they are really focused on that education of their salespeople. And I think that's vital. Sadly, you go back to UK and no matter where you go, education of the salespeople is not a priority.

Jeff York  19:17 
Yeah, no, it's I think that's true of like any business where you're selling like a craft product that's differentiate. I mean, I know I've seen people that were selling, even for example, like organic sunscreens, like so I had a friend I mean, I know that seems awfully far afield from what we're talking about. But the same thing she was saying, like, Look, the best thing I can do is to have someone in the store, be able to explain to someone why they would want to pay the extra for my product. And

Brad Werner  19:41 
that's the same in the marijuana business.

Jeff York  19:42 
Yeah, absolutely.

Brad Werner  19:43 
I mean, it's, it's just, it's a really great way. So are you making whiskies for yourself knowing that you have a palette that resonates? Are you talking to customers and talking to these folks that are knowledgeable and they're discussing a flavor profile that you develop for them?

Alastair Brogan19:57 
That's a tough one because there is a We're all better off you're making for yourself, but also in the back of your head, you know, what's commercial and what's not. Because every single person has a different opinion on things. Whether I mean, we just were selling an amazing amount of single malt whiskey to Canada, because they're big single malt whiskey lovers, whereas in some states, they're not. So it really is state by state and also country by country. Yeah. And it's difficult. It's really how your gut feels and what you want to do. So having the 44 malted barley was a massive risk, because when it comes off the still, you still don't know what it's going to be like, after three, four years in the bar. Could you

Brad Werner  20:37 
tell right a little bit,

Alastair Brogan20:38 
can you tell if it's a failure, you can tell whether there's anything off okay, so you can tell if there's all flavors of smells, you can tell that. But at the end of the day, we were the first to do this as our craft distilleries are forced to do their own thing. And it is a weeba of a risky thing. So yeah, you have confidence in what you're doing. You know, what we're making? Know, for example, you know, one other person us is making a peated single malt whiskey. That's standard in the rest of the world, but not us, huh? podcast, Sherry cask. All those things are not standard here. So it's a little bit of an education is all wet bourbon. keep the lights on?

Brad Werner  21:16 
Yeah. Yeah, no, Eddie Van Winkle is rolling over in his grave.

Jeff York  21:23 
I think it's fast. I think a lot of the craft breweries have gone down the same path of like, you're like, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna sell. You know, I think every crafter I know is sick of making hazy IPA at this point. I don't want to make frickin hazy IPA. I really don't care about that. But for whatever reason, that became the trendy thing, and that's what people drink. So they'll make that and then they'll make their sours and their more complex beer.

Alastair Brogan21:45 
Yeah. And here's the thing with I think for a lot of people, when we do tastings, etc, I always say to people wasn't gaze, you know what's in it, you know, what greens and what flavors greens might give you, you know, what the borrower gives you, but I'm not here to tell you what you're gonna taste. Because a lot of people have a very, very different perception of it. We're not we're not the wine guys. You know, you can decide in the power of suggestion, if I screamed peanut butter, everybody would suddenly say, yes. Or if I said, whatever. So you know, I'm very, very conscious of people. Your brain tells you more than your mouth can actually express. Especially when it comes to tastes and flavors.

Jeff York  22:27 
Yeah, what are you tasting? Now? What is this this no right? This is still a bourbon. Okay, good. I got that much. Right. Okay, so still

Alastair Brogan22:36 
a bourbon. But what we do and this is a very traditional thing with single malt whiskies is a not so much with Bourbons is we take the bourbon already matured, we then put it in a Sherry cask, an empty chair, a cask barrel that we bring across from Europe. And it's got maybe 15 litres still sitting in the wood. What happens over the first two to three weeks is especially in this climate, where you've got huge swings in temperature swings and temperature swings of pressure, you get sucked into that carbon filter in the barrel really quickly and pushed out as why we're sitting in here we can smell evaporation from the barrels as the angel shear. So we put it in that bar on very quickly all that Sherry is known to bourbon. But then what happens which is really interesting is for the next four or five months, we weave it in, and you know, start getting influence from the European oak. So American oak is the greens are pretty tight. And it's broad for whiskey. European oak tends to be more for wines. So therefore they're a little wider in the greens. And we end up getting a little bit more of a space in is a little bit more of a dark fruit. Right. But this is a shared economy note. There are Sherry casks releases in the US that bourbon. I think ours works because Sherry's very used or Wayne is very used to clean into malted barley, I don't think and I can stand corrected here. But I don't think it cleans very well to the big heavy corns and the rice. Yeah. So now what we've got is a real sort of combination of that Sherry, the malted barley, but it's still a bourbon because it's good 51

Brad Werner  24:14 
corn. It's delicious.

Jeff York  24:17 
Yeah, I would agree. This is now To me, this has more complexity to it than the bourbon we just had. There's more different layers more, I'm probably being probably gullible to suggestion. But I do get like more kind of fruit tones in this like, and things like that. Just as soon as we drink as soon as we picked up, I was like, let's it's very different

Alastair Brogan24:39 
than the other one is very different. Because you've got that added complexity. You've got those added sort of dark fruits, you've got that wane, but what I didn't see is we've we've increased the proof from 42 to 47. Well, yeah, that's why you like it. And you know, I think for this that's the sweet spot. I think raising the proof in somehow A hole really makes a difference in the mouthfeel. Yeah, and I think this is significantly different. Yes.

Brad Werner  25:07 
I think it's smoother, but it feels thicker to

Alastair Brogan25:09 
Yeah. Yes. The tail.

Brad Werner  25:15 
I never want to think about peanut butter in my bourbon. Yeah, my bourbon and your peanut butter. Wow, this is this is great. And once again, that flavor stays with you. It doesn't die.

Alastair Brogan25:25 
This more. So I think personally, I think more so if I was picking up my bourbon versus this I'd pick this up every time. I enjoy anything that's finished in something. Whether it be Sherry port midyear. Which

Brad Werner  25:38 
one which one are we drinking? Let's make sure we let our audience know exactly what this is because this is such a this is

Alastair Brogan25:43 
the bourbon whiskey finished and Sherry casks. Okay, so

Jeff York  25:47 
boulder spirits is our orange lake.

Brad Werner  25:48 
And how much does a bottle like that retail for $55. Great. So let me it's right in the sweet spot.

Jeff York  25:55 
Yeah, that's great.

Alastair Brogan25:57 
So we've had the single and made the bourbon. Then we had the bourbon. We're going to have another bourbon now. Right? But there's a story behind this one. So this is the last of the Bourbons, when I give you the single malt whiskey in the beginning, I just wanted you to get at that difference that contrast. So this one is our sink. Oh no, pick up the wrong one. You see

Brad Werner  26:18 
what happens after three little tastes like I don't have that one

Alastair Brogan26:21 
with me. So the one I was going to give you about not was actually bottled and bond tells a great story bottled and bottled and bond way back in 1897. And before there was a lot of people were drinking Stephen is still the new mix spirit. That was the norm. Yeah, until somebody discovered that if you put bourbon in oak barrel, it would actually taste better. But as a direct result, there was a lots of dodgy characters that were dying it pretending who'd been in a bar Oh, yeah, sure. Tobacco spit and all sorts of really was undermining the whole barrel aging and really undermining What? Why the great Kentucky guys were doing. So they had an act of Congress at 97 bottled and bond aid. And there's four main rules, single distillery single season 50 alcohol by volume. So they raised alcohol content, because remember, the minimum can be 40 ABV, raise it to 50. But the most important part was it had to be in a barrel for a minimum 40 years. Okay, so both of the bond bourbon is just a mark of quality, you know, you're gonna get 50 ABV. It's coming from a single distillery single season. But it's been in the barrel for four years, as opposed to straight whiskey, which is two years gotcha. Gotcha. So there's not many of us doing this. There's more expensive, more expensive ads I like and I don't want to compete. Exactly. But if you drink a 12 year old anything is right. It's ready. But if you drink an 18 year old scotch, it's even better, but there's a little bit of a price increase. So you know, with especially the claim in Colorado, we have losing so much Nanjo share. Oh, yeah. No. We weren't the price increase. But yes. So the bottle demand bourbon, really is that sort of step up. And what it for us is really demonstrates where the progression of a bourbon can be, and we'll be right. So maybe when it's older, it will be even better. There'll be a hell of a lot away so that, but it will be a little better.

Brad Werner  28:24 
Yeah. Interesting. Fascinating. I'm liking all of them. Yeah, yeah. So

Alastair Brogan28:30 
I'm now going to flip back to single malt whiskey. Okay, so we talked about the moan of liquid actually sits in a barrel. So what we do with our single malt whiskey is once it's fully matured, we then bring it out, and we put it in a port cask. Okay, Ruby port, the Ruby, there's Tony, there's other ones, but they're the main two. So we put it in a Ruby Port biral. We sit in it exactly, as I was saying earlier, for about six to eight months. And what we're trying to achieve here is something which to be honest, it's not unique, because single malt whiskey is very, very used. Multi borrow is very, very used to being in poor bottles. Okay, but it just brings out that beautiful fortified wine flavor, a little bit more sweetness. And for me, it just really just, it just adds another layer to what I've already got. Some people say it takes away a couple of layers, but yeah, but the way or it gives a treat. I

Brad Werner  29:30 
see you have seven children on the table. Do you have a favorite child sitting?

Alastair Brogan29:34 
We haven't tasted my two favorite. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna I'm gonna do the tastings here. It's gonna be a hell of a favorite bread. We did.

Alastair Brogan29:43 
What do we do 46 a day. always get asked what's your favorite one? tastings? And I said none of those. So to say that I don't like them, but I want to give people tasting

Brad Werner  29:59 
right? This as great as

Alastair Brogan30:01 
final two are my personal favorite. And there's reasons why and I will

Jeff York  30:07 
put into a podcast correct.

Brad Werner  30:09 
I have to tell you Alastair, if you go to other tasting, yo, if you just walk in, and you were so generous to invite us in to do this, but if you just go in and you walk into a distillery, I would say that they have one that they try to highlight. And the other ones, it's like they make them just so they have some compliments, but they're really normally not that good. But to have so far, four really good ones. I'm actually surprised I thought you'd have like something that's great, then you know what I mean?

Alastair Brogan30:35 
I know. And as far as sales are concerned, yes, we do have our core. Sure. But you know, a lot of people like to and what's really fun is when I probably asked you what your favorites were, every one of you will be different. And you'll you'll you'll you'll pick up those expressions differently. And you'll enjoy those expressions more than the other. And that's what's the fun thing about whiskies is, it's not all just about a straight bourbon or a straight single malt whiskey. It's all the varieties that you can then try.

Brad Werner  31:04 
Right, so I would say, up till now three was my favorite until I had this because I think it finishes differently. I don't know how to explain it. It's

Jeff York  31:12 
a super clean finish. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't linger as much with as many flavors, but I get more than oakiness. Yeah,

Brad Werner  31:19 
I'd say these are really smooth. Oh, Jeff. Oh,

Jeff York  31:21 
yeah, of course. They're all great. It's a little tough. Yeah, but, but they're also really different character. Like I actually would like to believe I could I could pick them out.

Brad Werner  31:31 
Yeah, you know, I'm between houses. I'm thinking about a place right upstairs.

Jeff York  31:35 
Okay, I know you said you can put in words, but what makes this your favorite? I'm just curious. Like, what do you like about this?

Brad Werner  31:40 
I swipe bourbon guy. No, but I think so. So it reminds me of a bourbon though. I so I wouldn't say that. It's not it's not far off. Right. So there is a little bit of sweetness that I like, Yeah, but I love it's a soft finish. It's more or less it doesn't die just fades. You know, I

Alastair Brogan31:57 
agree with bourbon drinkers saying that because here's the thing, our single malt whiskies really linked to the flavors that Americans are used to, because they're used to the new orc in all their spirit, and most of their whiskies, there are really familiar pickups here. So it's the awkwardness is this. So we're a bit more sweetness from that colonization of the sugars in New York. But for me, the sweetness from the port is I can recognize and most people can recognize the difference between different sugars so they can know all that's coming from that sweetness is coming from the poor. That's coming from the corn that's coming from Sure. The barrel, and I think people are becoming very, very aware of where the sugars a sweet but it's a nice sweetness always a nice sweetness because it's it's not coming from added sugars coming from the bar or is coming from the port.

Brad Werner  32:51 
Alright, so it's layering.

Alastair Brogan32:52 
It's a weird thing. And I think for me, it is sweeter. And I don't know if you've ever drunk Porter on its own because I always I always think of my grandmother when you're poor. And she has this little cups. But it's it normally I would say oh, that's that's too sweet. But I like it because I know the sweetness is coming from the port.

Brad Werner  33:11 
Yeah, this is really great. And we're talking similar price points between the last two bottles.

Alastair Brogan33:16 
Yes, we are Shree bourbon is at 45. And then the two that we're finishing at the end are $68 but then everything else is 50.

Jeff York  33:24 
So if you're looking for this one, it's again boulder spirits. American single malt whiskey. And then there just says on the bottom podcast, I mean,

Brad Werner  33:32 
45 bucks. Jeff, that's a deal.

Jeff York  33:33 
Oh, yeah,

Brad Werner  33:34 
that's that's a steal. Actually,

Jeff York  33:35 
when you said soft, that actually resonated a lot with me with this one. It's very, very, and that the other ones haven't been smooth. But this one just is like, it's almost like evaporates off your tongue or anything.

Brad Werner  33:47 
last longer, too.

Jeff York  33:47 
Well, yeah, the flavor. But it's it's really the mouthfeel is really what stage Oh,

Alastair Brogan33:52 
what do you think of it? I'm not a big single malt guy. But this is very Yeah, it's it's

Brad Werner  33:57 
different circle? Yes,

Alastair Brogan33:59 
we Americans. And I think part of that is just as I said, leans towards that new new autobio. And you know, what we do here at the distillery? You know, since COVID, we used to have a tasting bar where people came in and bought cocktails. We shut that down when COVID started, and we haven't actually reopened. And what we do and we love this part of it, is that we are open from 12 to six, seven days a week. You can book tours online, but the 12 to six is people just wondering if they want to taste anything we have will pour them a taster. And it just gives them an understanding of what we've got. Because, you know, one of the things craft spirits really struggles with is people a consistency and want to know, like to stick to what they know. And to spend money on a bottle of whiskey. 50 $60 is a big commitment. So by tasting COVID we weren't able to do that craft distilleries weren't able to do that. So what we know do is we have a lot of people come in and say hey, you know, I don't know why can you give me a couple pours of They're not that bigger porters, but they're pours you know, and we spend time with them say this is what the difference between now would you normally like, now allows us to release our focus and what they like and what they don't like. And they're happier than to spend that money on it if we're able to do that. And a lot of our distilleries, and a lot of the craft distilleries are doing that. Now sees an interesting

Brad Werner  35:22 
Wow, the tone changed and then we got serious here. We're still gonna go still are still not in the final two. final two.

Alastair Brogan35:30 
So in Europe, you tend to find that there's there's lots of pitied single malt whiskey from they will pay very high. In the US. I think a lot of people's first introduction to peated single malt whiskey is something I can Iowa which is like a flag of eveyone, which is in measurement terms, 4050 fields per million IE of ppm fields per million. It's a bit off the chart. It's chewy, it's dirt, it's medicinal, it's a lot of people coming in here. I hate pitied Singapore. And I think because you know, a frog is number one in the US by a wall.

Jeff York  36:09 
Yeah, I mean, it's like drinking a glass of smoke. You're right. I mean, and I love it. Man, I'm

Brad Werner  36:13 
actually one of those other people. Yeah, I do not like really PD drinks.

Alastair Brogan36:18 
And I'm I'm the same maybe the last drink at night. But that's about it. So why I wanted to do was do something which was was subtle, and it was expression. So even though this is absolutely there on the nose and at the end and you'll be chewing it for another 510 minutes. It's still down here. This is our best guess. 15 females per million.

Jeff York  36:41 
Yeah, it's not a California. It's not like I could smell that from a foot away if that's what we were doing. This like

Brad Werner  36:48 
I know there are drinks, it's their, their drinks that your rinse your glass with some of those really PD ones and then pour everything else and make a cocktail just for that kind of that base or that. Yeah, I definitely get the towel hailer.

Alastair Brogan36:58 
Do you know your spawn because Talas goes bait? You're right. Talisker is a very light, a PG single malt whiskey, probably similar to this as far as the penal code is concerned. The North like I was out with a chap a couple of weeks ago, and he worked for distilleries and American he worked for blue Friday. And they do what's called octomore oxtongue octomore. And they got up to 309. finos.

Brad Werner  37:24 
Oh my god, I might as well just go eat some pizza. Exactly. Right now

Alastair Brogan37:27 
this is

Jeff York  37:28 
this is the thing this is like for me this is the thing happens with alcoholic beverages a lot there becomes this like escalation thing. We were talking earlier, I was talking earlier about hazy IPAs, right? It's the same thing in the craft brewing industry. It's got to the point now where people are making beers. They're so hoppy. It actually physically is painful to drink them like it hurts your throat, like the acids and the hops are too much. But that's the thing. That's what people are. I mean, it's just kind of a macho thing. I guess I silly. I don't know.

Brad Werner  37:56 
This is fantastic. I think the blend is great. So and I'm not a peep person.

Jeff York  37:59 
Yeah, this isn't overpowering. Do you like this? Right? Like see now but

Brad Werner  38:02 
some of those that if I smell the Pete here, I pretty much can't drink up to see

Jeff York  38:06 
I like that. But but this is I like this a lot too. And I could not do this. I had to do a peated single malt whiskey today. Yeah. Now I'm curious if this sounds particularly better than your non-peak versions. Do

Alastair Brogan38:18 
people pick up on that? Or they even when we do tastings here, we sell more peated single malt whiskey than any other right

Jeff York  38:24 
because people just wrong the discount that. I mean, if you if you've ever had any interest in scotch whiskey at all, yeah, this is the flavor you're like, I mean, I know much. But I know that is because I mean, you'd have to like you'd have to be brain dead and not be. Okay, that's smoky alcohol. Yep,

Alastair Brogan38:43 
that's it to me. It's a it's a very sort of familiar. Yes. smell and taste. I don't think any alcohol has been smoked or something like a mezcal. Oh, yeah. Or, or cocktails or the, you know, the pit the smoke thing?

Jeff York  38:56 
Yeah. If you're had a German rock beer, it's like a smoke. They smoke the malts. Really? It's not Pete it's some other very smoky flavor. Oh, yeah. It's like a smoky, dark beard. It's not really particularly pleasant. But you know, you're a beer nerd.

Brad Werner  39:11 
It's like, it's like going out to dinner with someone and they say, you know what this tastes like shit. Try it.

Alastair Brogan39:20 
Maybe just here, but we had two elderly women in here the other day and they must have been in their late 70s. I never asked day. One of them was a big whiskey drinker. The other one had never tasted whiskey in our life. And she went through our whiskies and she literally spot the first one I spiked the second one, spot the third one out and fell in love with the third single malt and said, You've given me a new lease of life. She said, I will no be buying, you know, peated single malt whiskey for the rest of my life. Alright.

Jeff York  39:48 
Man, this is so nice. I'm like, I'm starting to agree with you what paper? Let's just talk about lists. Yeah, that's right. We've got we've got two more. Okay. So yeah,

Alastair Brogan39:58 
we've got two more to go. You Use a little bit of water to wash out otherwise you're gonna go Yeah, sure you're gonna get pee in everything else you drink from

Jeff York  40:05 
you were sitting, there were some cocktails you had where people just put the

Brad Werner  40:08 
really highly peated whiskey and shake it up around the glass, dump it out, but that residue is left there for that kind of that smoky aura. Oh, yeah,

Alastair Brogan40:17 
yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, we've got to really clean the pipes when we're doing the bottling, if we don't put a case through. So the last two we're gonna taste tonight is again, going back to the single malt whiskies. Personally, these are my favorite, but everybody has their own their own thoughts. So we did a Singapore whiskey with a port finish. And again, pretty traditionally single malt whiskies are finished machete as well as port. So Sherry, if you can, again, my grandmother's drink again, it is very, very different to the port, I don't think is as sweet, but I think it's got a lot more different flavors to it. So we do exactly the same. We get our matured single malt whiskey, and then we finish it in an all Rosso Sherry barrel or PX Sherry bar though those Sherry barrels are coming across in Europe. You know, we've got to know the history of them where they're coming from. But here's the thing. I mean, they're the Scotch whisky industry demand so many of these bottles for finishing whiskey, that port and Shetty can't keep up. So the big port and Shetty producers literally leave in the barrel, the condition the barrel, and then they dump it down the drain. Because there's more demand for the barrels. And there are three or four times more expensive than brand new bottles. Oh yeah, they gotta get their money somewhere extortionate, expensive. So I just love.

Jeff York  41:48 
This is the same whiskey exactly that we had here. That was done in a podcast. But now we're gonna have it from a Sherry cask. Correct. Okay. Yeah.

Brad Werner  41:59 
You'll do a batch and half goes one way and half goes the other way.

Alastair Brogan42:01 
Yeah, once we've fully matured. So for example, there's six Sherry barrels coming in 250 liters, Sherry barrels coming in the next couple of weeks. So we'll take fully matured Singapore whiskey out of the bottles, pour them into the new bottles, and then wait for six, eight months. So this is my one of my favorites.

Brad Werner  42:22 
Well, that's good. Nothing's been bad, right? That's the thing. Nothing's been bad. I mean, bottom line is you close your eyes and just pick one. You're doing okay.

Jeff York  42:32 
Yeah, no, I mean, that was the thing we walked in here today. I was like, wow, I was looking at the bottles. I was just like, wow, they do a lot of different whiskey variations. That's not something you usually see at a craft distillery, as you were saying earlier,

Alastair Brogan42:42 
it's more expressions. I mean, we just do it. We do a single malt in a bourbon. But everything else in expression are bottled and bond. Sure. And, you know, we don't actually this one that you're tasting, is actually not being distributed. This is just from the distillery because we were testing not testing the market. But we were seeing what it came out late because sureness Sure, so we're seeing how it came out from that, that New York viral and then the finishing. And I think we're narrowing down three charity bottles that will maybe come out, maybe Christmas, we'll put this on. But most of our products, nobody else is really doing one or two people. So I've got to be careful how many skews I bring out? Yeah,

Brad Werner  43:20 
get confusing, too.

Alastair Brogan43:23 
It can get confusing. You're absolutely

Jeff York  43:25 
yes, absolutely. Well say so this one I get similar things to what we have the port, except for it's like a lighter fruit. Totally agree like a little bit like I have a kind of sound like a wine snob. But I mean, but I don't like that. But I mean, it does have like kind of Apple pear like thing going on to me like in the in the high end, like on the front of the tongue, you kind of get that. I definitely taste more Sherry And this, then I tasted port and this for me. I get I get the cherry flavor here.

Brad Werner  43:56 
You know what? It's just good. I agree. But I don't know how to explain it other than just that one experience at yourself. You know,

Alastair Brogan44:06 
when we taste 10 Singapore whiskey bottles or bourbon borrows, we have a sort of almost each of them will be spawn one will be not likely we sort of just let it age more. One bar will be spectacular for whatever reason. And we maybe do that as a distillery release or a single barrel. But interestingly, when we tasted both five of these barrels together, every single one was distinctly different. Really, we ended up blending three of them putting two back and now we're getting to two maybe one will be okay. When I see all key, you know a age does remedy of all things. Sure. But yeah, the sharing port have been a little bit more inconsistent between barrels and adjusted.

Jeff York  44:48 
So tell us about the process like see you're you're getting ready to think about bottling some of the barrels you've laid down. You guys go through and you do you taste each barrel you have other People come in that you trust their opinion, is it just employees? Like, how do you say like, Okay, so this barrels good. I mean, I know you can make your own judgments. But as you said, Everybody tastes things differently. So you know, you can't just make your own judgment less. You're,

Alastair Brogan45:12 
we've got some good staff people here, good employees who are really good at tests,

Jeff York  45:17 
the tough part of the job, but they'll

Alastair Brogan45:18 
step up to it. And then we have sort of guest appearances if we share nor when we're going to be tasting. And we all make our own opinions. And it literally is not showing no peanut butter, but we're moving things forward and deciding yourselves and writing it down.

Brad Werner  45:35 
Yeah, but you guys you are experienced, where does the customer come into, oh,

Alastair Brogan45:38 
you would be shocked at how close most people would get to what we are selecting really, you would be shocked. And the reason I say that is because we've had people who can can express anything verbally about what they've tasted, but just that their brain we're seeing that's better, that's better, that's better. And we've had whiskey clubs in here doing the exact same and we know which bars we like and need picked out. And that's called confirmation. It's confirmation, but also, your brain tells you it's just incredible and wide normally do i do an extra step? When I do a 10 c 10 single malt whiskies, I get our standard single malt whiskey, and I use that it's just to sort of whet the pilot to know what I'm loving. I'm always astounded at how much the different but also how people on a consensus always get together on those are the end if we were really arguing about it, we may just blend seven, throw the other ones back where the major bit more and then revisit at a later date.

Jeff York  46:37 
Right when your son gets married, we need to come in we need to taste these whiskies. We need to choose a barrel and we might choose to get them to blend together and make it the creative distillation barrel.

Brad Werner  46:46 
That's unbelievable. That's a great idea he had he is a whiskey lover,

Jeff York  46:51 
lover and then we can sell it to our literally sell it literally I don't know, dozens of fans out there that are listening to this podcast.

Alastair Brogan47:02 
I did I did the 250 mil bottles to my brother was is like do you have what's called fevers? Do you know that the I don't know tennis weddings where the group gives something? Oh, yeah, yeah, like parties. And so meet some 300 of the term th bottles with a picture of them on

Jeff York  47:22 
your my wedding. We brewed all the beer and we made one keg of Mead. And it was a sweet Mead. And it was summer in Tennessee. And people didn't realize that meat is like, you know, 10 13% I don't actually know what the percentage was on this one. I thought it was really popular. And the bluegrass band sounded a lot better to people. And my dad was doing donuts on his Harley in the parking lot. It's quite, quite a redneck event. But yeah, no, this is this is just fantastic. Great, Oscar. Thank you so much.

Alastair Brogan47:53 
So the last one we have here, again, is probably my equal favorite. So we talked about bottled and bond. And it just really demonstrated the development of where American single malt whiskey is going. And or single malt whiskey was ready three years, called the street whiskey. This, we had to actually even say street whiskey again. But this is the bottled and bond. So it's a little bit not much higher proof. But it's both four and a quarter a year. So two extra summers. And now two extra summers makes a big difference. Really hot summer. here in Colorado, I

Jeff York  48:27 
mean the summer

Alastair Brogan48:29 
event. And so it shows you and as I said earlier on about single malt whiskey, you know, scotch whiskey, a 12 year old is rarely an 18 year old is better. This is exactly the same here. And it just also sort of shows you that development of where the spirits going. No. And maybe I shouldn't say this. But there's not many people in the US that have who malted barley in your biros, this climate for this one. So there's a little bit of a danger where that barley eventually could get overtaken by the new bar. Oh, interesting. So I've had Singapore whiskey climate similar to this, that's 10 years old, and it was just too much too okay to tan, any kind of looking, let's

Brad Werner  49:12 
find somewhere in that curve before it.

Alastair Brogan49:14 
Right, exactly. And I think we're in a good position in as much as we've got still that will make heavier whiskey. But I don't think most of this whiskey will last as far as sales are concerned beyond eight years and I think where it's going to be the sweet spot for American single malt whiskey in this claim

Brad Werner  49:32 
explained that What do you mean that it won't last beyond the ears? Well

Alastair Brogan49:34 
may just get to where they're at. So that awkwardness literally overtakes the multibuy Okay, so at the moment if scotch whiskey drinker This is sweet and auki then it just could get to sweet Well, not so much to sweet but to Okay, yeah, so 10 is a will take too much talent. So yours will be sold out with everything we've got. And that's probably going to be the sweet spot where we're going to be sitting eat years old. So this is just under five and a half years old. We're just going to go in a year's time. Who knows? There's very few people in the whole us have done it this this, this this age, this is my favorite.

Jeff York  50:12 
It might just be you telling me? No, but I mean, there's so much more complexity and depth to this and the ones that we've tasted, there's just multiple layers of like, you know, you get the Carmel a little bit and you get a little bit heat, a little bit of smoke, a little bit of char, it's, it's just a more complex beverage, in my opinion.

Alastair Brogan50:32 
I agree with you. And for me, you take a sip, and count to two is still there,

Jeff York  50:40 
you're gonna do a crossword puzzle. I just take a drink of water. That's impressive, man.

Alastair Brogan50:45 
And I don't know you know, I've had a few commentaries about this where even the jump up and proof for a wall whiskey drinkers that jump up and prove gives them a bedtime mode feel now and even though those only jumping up from 46 to 50. I think it makes a little bit of a difference as well.

Jeff York  51:01 
Yeah. So this is the highest proof one we've had, right? This is not Yeah, this is

Brad Werner  51:07 
these are these are great. They're great.

Jeff York  51:09 
Now this one this one though, I agree with you. I mean, they've all been really good. And I've enjoyed them all. This one has a depth to it. That is different. I think you're right. I think this is hitting the sweet spot. And I assume that this is a more expensive ball if you want to go but

Brad Werner  51:23 
yeah, that's jumping up to $60 it would have to be Yeah, you know, you're you're sitting in the warehouse. Well, we're losing, you know, five 6% anyway, a year or two years Really? So

Jeff York  51:32 
bolted spirits bottled in bond. That's my favorite. Your favorite, Brad. Come on.

Brad Werner  51:37 
I have two favorites, actually favorites. So I think that there are different ways to go. And I think that I'm planning my evening, right. So last, so I would say number four, and the last one are my two favorites before was any Sherry cask again? Yes. Yeah, I like the podcast bear I think yeah, I think but I might have time again. But now I'm gonna start to lose it a little bit. So yeah. It was it was three or four and and the last one because I really did like it was even close to syrupy just on the edge. And I did like that feel. And truthfully, I drink my whiskies with two ice cubes. And so I don't know when we're drinking this without ice cubes. Yeah, so I just don't know how that would open these up. I actually think we have to come back with ice next time.

Jeff York  52:19 
Yeah. For just get a bottle

Alastair Brogan52:22 
Yeah. Hi, proof ones open up spectacularly. I think when you get to the waterproof bourbon, you're right at that point where a little bit of water the rest of them can dig a bit more if you want to add water but i i always when I do tastings, ask people Tidewater, the first one because again, I want to see people understand when you add water actually changes the nose changes the flavor. But add too much in your Oh no, you can kill hitting it down. Right. So people always ask me what I like in my waste gas. Yeah, really hard ice cube. Yep, an ice cube. They'll keep it cool. But also melt. It's such a slow rate and throat. It's only melted a very small amount when you finish your whiskey. And it does just change that whole thing.

Brad Werner  53:05 
And I still spell Pete for my last one. So I think it's Yeah, I think it's affecting me.

Jeff York  53:10 
I don't know if the complexity has a smokiness to it. I know.

Alastair Brogan53:13 
Some people mistake char for maybe that's worse. But there's definitely a little bit more char and I get a chart.

Jeff York  53:19 
That's That's exactly right.

Alastair Brogan53:21 
You got to be familiar with Pete to know the slight difference. No,

Jeff York  53:24 
it's not. Pete. I mean, that's a different thing than just the this like, yeah, I think you're right, this the chart for sure.

Alastair Brogan53:31 
No, I make a stand corrected. But you know, I think whiskey is one of the spirits that really does evoke memories who you're with what you were doing with absolutely all those kinds of things. And I think, you know, I've told people who really into into tequila, that's the same, I don't know. But I think whiskies really evoke that kind of memories. And, you know, I've got memories, if I think of any one of those I have no Bourbons, but I have great memories. So evokes a lot of great memories for me and people who I would drink certain, you know, Sherry or poor or, or especially PT with and and that's part of the joy of whiskey.

Brad Werner  54:11 
So I guess the bottom line is, if you don't like the person you're drinking with, take them to a different place. After somebody you don't like, right, so you know, by experience that person, I'll start this has been awesome. Absolutely. Well, listen, guys, I'll let you go on with what you got going on. How long have we been doing?

Jeff York  54:32 
We've been going like about an hour? Yeah, so

Brad Werner  54:34 
we normally have 45 minutes total.

Jeff York  54:36 
Yeah. Alright. So at this point, we've tasted seven wonderful whiskies. I don't even really have to ask this question. Well, Brad, Brad, would you would you like to sample your favorite again? Or would you like to

Brad Werner  54:47 
talk about a paper? My favorite is definitely the way to go. By the way after having seven different tastings here. What paper?

Jeff York  54:54 
Yeah, it's like we deserve a break. I mean, what we've done here Essential Oil. I love it. So number 20 episode of grid distillation, we can label this with paper. Yeah.

Brad Werner  55:08 
Here's the other thing that's really cool is that Elster has a really good guy spent this much time with me. I don't spend this much time with my family. I just say that this has been a great discussion but outside this that's a great question, though. What about entrepreneurial I mean, coming in starting a new business, lessons learned, mistakes you made, we have

Jeff York  55:31 
so many students who are really passionate about craft brewing or distilling or just any craft thing, because I think your story is really interesting. You're like, Well, you know, I, I needed to do something I cared about, and he had a hobby and second career. Yes, for a lot of our students, they don't have that option. But they want to go straight. They want to sort of skip the first step and just go straight into their their sort of passion. And you've done that. Any insights you have from having done this,

Alastair Brogan55:54 
I think we share with them. I think if you're going to make your passion of your business, I think you have to have done something before that. Yeah, I think it's essential that you build up the skill. Yes. Before you go into your passion. And even then the skills that I got from being in a business running a business for 15 years. Yes, a lot of them are transferable. But a lot of them are not. Yeah, but the good thing is, even though I had that lack of knowledge, I just was one of the guys that asked a lot of questions. And sometimes coming from a different industry, with a different perspective, really has an added benefit, as long as you're prepared to make mistakes, feel a few of the decisions. But that's all part of running a business. So no, actually all as many times as other people, but succeeded as well as other people. So I still ask dumb questions. And they just try and build on my knowledge and what I'm doing. Yeah, but I

Brad Werner  56:52 
would say the other thing that's really interesting here, though, you could sell finance, if you'd raise money and had partners pressuring you one way or the other things may have turned out differently.

Alastair Brogan57:01 
Yes, because I'm 100% owner, I could make all the decision myself even that, you know, there comes a time, especially if you're selling whiskey, that is a four or five year horizon, you know, what you make today is not going to be enough to supply your customer for five years, right? If your business plan is x, y, and Zed growth, yeah. So there comes a time where most especially whiskey distilleries really have that To try and either have to bring other investors in, or they get bought out by the big guys, or VCs come in. I mean, personally, I will go on as long as I can. Right. But you know, if this is successful, the flip side is that you have to have the money for laying down in bottles today for five years growth. Yeah, that is incredibly well, it's impossible. It's impossible to anticipate where your cash flow, you just can't bear

Jeff York  57:55 
that a lot of times. How can you do that? Absolutely. You know, it reminds me of an insight from a paper I wanted to talk about.

Brad Werner  58:04 
So the cool thing is now coming out of COVID. Being that this was perfect, right? We have a couple drinks, yeah, to really promote this business. And I'm not promoting this because I have to anybody that's listening. Trust me, as much as you can trust the voice in your headset.

Jeff York  58:20 
These whiskies are great. No, seriously, I mean, like that. That is so true. I mean, to me, this episode of the podcast has been about going out and talking to someone who, spending more time with an entrepreneur and less time in the papers. And just the beauty of someone taking something that comes from their their heritage, their knowledge, who they are, and then turning into a product we can all enjoy. Yeah, bolder spirits. These are amazing lists, like whiskey and bourbon. You got to come here and and if you can't come here, then you need to find these on your on your local shelves. And if you can't do that, you need to ask for them because they are fantastic. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time and with your whiskey. I think Brad and I took more than the angel share, but we're very happy to have done. Oh, yeah. Thanks, guys. No, I really enjoyed that. It's just been wonderful. So once again, this is creative distillation, where we distill entrepreneurial research and actual insights and sometimes just drink whiskey. My name is Jeff Yorick, I'm the research director at the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship, joined by my co host, I'm

Brad Werner  59:21 
Brad Warner. And by the way, just check out the diamond Center at the lead School of Business Online. It's a really cool place. amazing people, very open minded, we're pushing the boundaries and hopefully we continue to do so and

Jeff York  59:33 
we got a new building we're moving into it's literally a bridge between business and Engineering at the University of Colorado, which we're extremely excited about. Once again, this was hosted by boulder spirits. You can find them online, come on out and visit there at the vapor distillery here in Boulder. And, man, I just this has just been wonderful to get out and spend time and do something I'm able to do in a year and a half. Thanks a lot, guys.

I really enjoyed it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai