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Jeff York  0:14 
Welcome to Creative distillation where we distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. I'm your host, Jeff York, joined as always with my colleague. Hey, Jeff.

Brad Werner  0:24 
I'm Brad Warner. And it's great to see you in this awesome spot that we picked today.

Jeff York  0:28 
Last episode, which you're gonna want to go back to, if you haven't heard because it's absolutely riveting, Chuck Easley from from Stanford as well as was really upset. But we did that the dig Center for Entrepreneurship, where Brad and I work at the University of Colorado in Boulder, and also the sponsor of this podcast, I should mention the Deming center and so we were in a conference room and I was mixing cocktails. I was doing a really great job on our producer Joel we're really enjoying the RONIS The Goonies I was mixing up I went home and I took the stuff for making the gurneys home. I made one for my wife, and she said man this Yeah, we are at under the sun. I almost had southern sun. But under the sun is in lovely table Mesa, Colorado where Brad has just moved. So this could be his local watering hole. We don't know yet.

Brad Werner  1:15 
Oh, yeah. No, this looks fantastic. But they I see the woodfired pizza oven in the background. And yeah, that's a beer in front of us. Great. So

Jeff York  1:22 
this week's kind of exciting. We are going to be talking beer with Matt Raleigh, the manager here at under the sun. And you know what, Brad? What's exciting is you know, the fall season is here. Yeah, this is the Fall Equinox are all Yeah, very excited. My happiest time of the year. I love the fall. You love the fall. And another reason you love the fall so much is because we're going to be sampling today. I know. You can't tell this just by looking at them. These are 1234566 different variations on pumpkin beer.

Brad Werner  1:53 
Matt told me it's not true. Six pumpkin beers,

Matt Rowley  1:56 
six pumpkin beers. You know? I know you're disappointed. We'll have to work on it for next.

Jeff York  2:04 
I'm really excited. I really. I mean, that is a tradition. pumpkin beer October, right? It's all pumpkin beer all the time.

Unknown Speaker  2:12 
Yeah, we were thinking of changing the the sun in the mountain Sun logo. Just a big pump.

Jeff York  2:18 
Nice. Alright, this is dangerous because I don't want anybody to think that like under the sun only surface pump can

Unknown Speaker  2:23 
be I just want to make Brad happy. No, just to clarify, we have zero pumpkin beers on as of now.

Brad Werner  2:32 
I totally believe Tim is great. I'm very, very happy.

Jeff York  2:39 
And this will come into play later. We can Yeah, that'd be perfectly okay. That's good. That's gonna come up later.

Brad Werner  2:44 
I swear to God, I was gullible there because you would pull something like that.

Jeff York  2:47 
I would. I tried. You did. Great. Thank you. So So we're here under the sun. The sun is a part of the mountain Sun family. Right, Matt? Absolutely. And I know that I know. Like the first time I ever came to Boulder. It was like, Hey, I'm a beer fan. And people are like, Oh, we got to get a mountain. So we went to mountain sun on the traditional location on Pearl Street. I drank a few beers just to sample a few things. Sure. And then the next day thought I was gonna die. Because I'd never been to altitude before drinking beer but but mountain Sun is like has a rich tradition here in Boulder. And I don't know if you guys know this has a really rich tradition with the lead School Business Entrepreneurship Program. Literally all of our PhD students go there. We all love it. And

Brad Werner  3:32 
you probably made 20 bucks.

Unknown Speaker  3:33 
I'm not surprised. I spent about five years serving at Mountain Sun Bri COVID. And I'm sure I recognize more than a couple here.

Brad Werner  3:41 
I have a question about mountain sun. I believe I've been in there a few times. Is it the place that says hey, if you're able to at the end,

Unknown Speaker  3:48 
what we do is we have traditionally up until COVID. We never accepted credit cards, okay, your cash or cheque only. So what it really was is we had a system called a Karma envelope. So if you came in, let's say you know your grandma, you're taking out your son and his fraternity brothers to dinner on a Friday night, right? And she whips out the AMEX to pay for everybody. Right? And she's a little shook. What do you tell her? Unfortunately, man, we we actually do not take credit cards. Well, the way we would resolve that situation we'd say worry nots miss, we have something called a Karma envelope. We're gonna send you home. We're gonna take none of your information. Complete honor system, you're gonna send us cash or check back in the mail. Have a great evening. We hope you enjoy your experience.

Brad Werner  4:35 
Yeah, yeah. So I'm from Chicago. And when I saw that I just about fell over. I'm thinking how does this business model work?

Unknown Speaker  4:41 
I'm from Atlanta, that wouldn't work, right? Yeah, absolutely not. Yeah,

Brad Werner  4:45 
that's amazing that we ever stepped. Certainly right. But rarely, right. Rarely

Unknown Speaker  4:50 
and I'll tell you that when those envelopes came back, there was a nice healthy tip and

Brad Werner  4:54 
I think it's great at Ball health. I remember this from five years ago.

Unknown Speaker  4:57 
Yeah. And not only would there be a nice tip, but oftentimes You'd have a nice handwritten card. Oh, and you're just outlining, you know how welcome they felt, and how warm that made them feel that we had a system like that, what

Brad Werner  5:11 
a way to connect with your customers.

Jeff York  5:11 
I think that's incredible. And then the other thing I've always noticed, like, other than, you know, being a Grateful Dead, and so Joel here on Moscoso, fishes last tour for a while. So fish just played a phenomenal tour people. Never mind. So the theme, that sort of feeling of people that would like those bands would be perfectly at home, and also the service. That's what blew my mind, like the level of happiness that people have. I mean, I worked in the restaurant industry for a long time. I've never seen people so happy to be at work, nor so willing to like just help, like, you can be waited on by like eight different people during a visit to mountain Sun restaurant or you're under the sun. And tell us a little bit why. Why is it like that?

Unknown Speaker  5:54 
Yeah, so we call it a team system. And it's the fundamental principle on which our whole company is built off of right? The idea is that everybody on the team is responsible for everything, nobody's above anyone else in any way. The payment is same across the board, all kitchen staff and all front of house staff make the same hourly wage, and we split the tips evenly between all front of house and back of house staff. So everybody is expected to pull the exact same weight. Everyone scrubs toilets, everyone does dishes, everyone bartender that includes the cooks. And sometimes we'll hop in the kitchen and help out too. That's awesome. And that principle, it means that we respect each other, that we have each other's backs, that when somebody gets, you know, in the weeds, if they get double set, triple set, I'm going to be right there, and it's a team, and they're going to be back to help me just the same scenario.

Brad Werner  6:48 
Yep. By the way, since I've moved here. This is about our weekend. Burger and Beer hang out. Every Saturday or Sunday. We're upstairs sitting outside on the tables. It's been awesome.

Jeff York  6:58 
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a girl. And that's why we've had like, five people ask us if we sit here. Yeah, right. It's just it's awesome. So and on top of all that, if you have not been to mountain Sun under the sun or southern sun, but there's other establishments outside of Boulder, right,

Unknown Speaker  7:15 
correct. There's five pubs. Okay, so began in 1993 with the mountain Sun pub and brewery on Pearl Street, right. Then in I believe, 2001. We opened up our pub upstairs. It's called the southern Sun pub in South Boulder. It's a much larger version with a really beautiful patio with an excellent view of the flat is cool. And I want to say around 2008 We opened the Vine Street pub and brewery in Vine Street and uptown neighborhood of Denver. Oh, really? There have not been Vine Street is our primary brewing location. Okay. The secondary brewing location is upstairs. Its southern sun. Did you grow out of the old places? mountain scene is tiny, I think.

Brad Werner  7:56 
Yeah. So you were you were brewing on Pearl Street.

Unknown Speaker  7:58 
We were originally brewing on Pearl Street, which if I were to take you back there would be shocking. Okay. It's

Jeff York  8:03 
insane. Like because I mean, you know, I've never been professional Burr. But that was like a homebrew or a beer judge. I would the first time I walked into mountain sun, and I saw there was like, I don't know, 18 beers on tap something like that. And I walked in the back of the bathroom and saw the brew house, like how the hell are these guys? And nobody was brewing at the time. So I'm like, how are they doing

Unknown Speaker  8:21 
that? It's wild. And that's not even to mention the logistical you know, options that come with having to get things on the prowl. Yeah. And those alleyways. All that so yeah, we opened southern sun in 2001. And that became our brewery. Now it's our second largest brewery, find st is the largest one. Okay. And that's where we're currently doing all of our brewing. And then we opened this place. And I want to say like, 2011 2012 Yes, right after I moved. And for those listening, the podcast, this place is immediately underneath Southern, this is really cool. Building so southern suns on top onto the sun down.

Jeff York  9:01 
I don't know if this is the driver behind. But basically, a lot of times you can't get into southern sun. Like that's just pack Yeah. And sometimes you can't get in either of them. But this at least you know, you come down here is another option. It's also I've always felt that the atmosphere here was a little more tranquil. Like this is where I come for, like business meetings and Sorensen's where I go to like, hang out with like people to celebrate something. The way

Unknown Speaker  9:22 
we sort of like to look at it is to unique rooms in the same grade home. Yep, yep. So yeah, we there is a intentionally different vibe down here. Yeah.

Brad Werner  9:33 
So back to your brewery, though. So the brewery in Denver? Does it just supply the restaurants or are you available anywhere else?

Unknown Speaker  9:39 
Correct. We do no distribution route. There has been some limited distribution in the past. I remember I was at Boulder theatre show one time, and I was looking all the all the decorations in the wall and I found an article for our very famous Java Porter bottles. But that was I think 9495 was Article, we recently did a charitable project with upslope and I believe Avery where we didn't make six pack that was so supportive. South Pole. Yeah, right.

Brad Werner  10:13  
I mean, and for our listeners I mean we are right next door craps grass. Yeah. And

Unknown Speaker  10:17 
we are in the same shopping center.

Jeff York  10:19 
Yeah. Well, let's um, let's take some these incredible beers.

Brad Werner  10:23 
Thank god they're not pumped. I can't believe I fell for that.

Jeff York  10:26 
Here's a twist. They actually are. Oh,

Brad Werner  10:30 
I have no idea. I mean, I don't I don't even know. I had I had a nice really it's

Jeff York  10:35 
just like Game of Thrones. But on a podcast, people are just like twist within twist. All sorts of stuff. So where we start?

Unknown Speaker  10:42 
We want to start I say drink it like a book. Okay, so left to right, top to bottom. Got it? So we're starting with what we call the heady broad Tober fest. Cheers, guys.

Jeff York  10:52 
Cheers. Happy October. Happy fall. Happy.

Unknown Speaker  10:55 
Saturday. Okay.

Jeff York  10:58 
Oh, man. That's good. Awesome. Awesome aroma.

Unknown Speaker  11:02 
Certainly a grassy aroma lightly toasted. Missing. Absolutely. European hops. Right. For sure. Kind of important to that more grassy aroma.

Jeff York  11:13 
Yeah, get the like Holly Tom maybe or something like that. Like really peppery, traditional Oktoberfest guy, huh? Yeah, I tried to make Oktoberfest for years with like ale yeast. And always sucks. If you were like, No, you can make an Oktoberfest or they'll use it and I taste their beer and it would suck too. And then I finally got like a chest reason to start logging. And then yeah,

Brad Werner  11:34 
I have to tell you, Oktoberfest beers are great. I love that kind of seasonal. May

Jeff York  11:39 
we'll do October 1 and still pumpkin beer. We can do that. Yeah, that'd be good.

Unknown Speaker  11:42 
There's something to worry about. October fights in the fall. It's just Yeah.

Brad Werner  11:46 
For me fall is my favorite season. Just having it come around. food's good. Yeah, my German so I love all the brands and all the other stuff.

Jeff York  11:53 
That was awesome. Yeah. What's next?

Unknown Speaker  11:56 
Next up is the number one Belgian Chappelle.

Brad Werner  11:59 
Oh, okay. So this isn't a build so we're gonna go sour here, right?

Unknown Speaker  12:02 
No, no, no more floral. Oh, so

Brad Werner  12:04 
I was assumed Belgians were

Jeff York  12:06 
sour beers that you can do better than

Brad Werner  12:10 
what you educate me over a couple of bourbons? Am I supposed to remember that?

Jeff York  12:13 
Yeah, you're supposed to remember

Unknown Speaker  12:14 
the most noteworthy aspect of a Belgian like this is gonna be Belgian yeast. Okay, and it's gonna give you a really floral aroma.

Jeff York  12:22 
Yeah. And you're also gonna shake it a little bit and get smoked. You're gonna get like a hot ethyl alcohol a little bit. And that's okay. Like in most beer, that would be like, problematic. But in Belgium beers. That's okay. Because it brewed to a really high street. I mean, what's the strength

Unknown Speaker  12:35 
on this mat? Like, leave? It's 9.1. Is that the strongest for you?

Jeff York  12:39 
Oh, no.

Brad Werner  12:42 
Okay, no, I have no idea. This

Unknown Speaker  12:43 
one on the line? Yeah, yeah, sure.

Jeff York  12:44 
Yeah. So this is why you see British people falling down whenever

Brad Werner  12:50 
I saw I would take number one over number two.

Jeff York  12:52 
Yeah, I would take number two over number one every day of the week.

Brad Werner  12:56 
But about you, Matt, would you have

Unknown Speaker  12:57 
ever started this number two, which happens to be called number one. Tip number one. The first was my favorite beer. And as times gone on, I found myself drawn to the drier beer. Yeah. So I would go with that Oktoberfest personally.

Jeff York  13:14 
It's really it's got like a really sweet aftertaste to typical your Belgian strong ales. Certainly very nice. I would drink a lot

Brad Werner  13:22 
of that. Do competitions with these bears?

Unknown Speaker  13:24 
Absolutely. We've won multiple gold medals, the JBf and plenty of other silver bronzes. We compete pretty regularly every single year in JBf. And we've had a great deal of success.

Brad Werner  13:40 
Yeah, so my son was a brewer and I actually came from Chicago to the Great American Beer Festival before I moved here. Oh, it is one of the most amazing things that we're saying.

Jeff York  13:48 
Oh my God, why are we not doing a podcast at the Great American Beer Festival? Dinner? No, we got to. Okay, we got so many great ideas now.

Unknown Speaker  13:56 
Wondering I haven't heard anything about it. So I always in October, October. Yeah.

Jeff York  14:02 
So is the director of the Deming center is listening. Eric, we're gonna be going to Munich, and then we're gonna need to purchase like a VIP kind of situation. Oh, great. American beer definitely. Tried to be easy and cheap to acquire. I'm sure. Yeah. So there you go. Especially.

Unknown Speaker  14:19 
One thing we actually do to help educate our staff is every single year we make sure every staff member who's available gets at least one free night. That's That's crazy. Brewers VIP access to JB Ellie. Yeah, every staff member every single staff member that's between all five pubs.

Jeff York  14:37 
Most people will understand what a big deal that is. You can't get into the great American restaurant much less Oh, no. I

Brad Werner  14:42 
mean, I remember the line was around. It's a huge building, whatever that it was around the building.

Jeff York  14:46 
Yeah, it's, you know,

Brad Werner  14:48 
I mean, it's

Unknown Speaker  14:48 
a half a mile long. It's almost as hard as getting a fish ticket.

Jeff York  14:51 
Yeah, actually, I had three tickets. Anyway. So and I've also got a Halloween a lockdown, but I'm not sure we'll see.

Brad Werner  15:00 
Let's go with beer number three. Is that called number three is it?

Unknown Speaker  15:03 
So this is the Colorado condo, huh? It's an American ESB. ESB, so yes, you better correct. But this is a very non traditional ESB.

Jeff York  15:14 
Yeah. So like, the traditional ESB is you go get one of these in the UK, it's gonna have a real strong acid all like butter, like flavor to it as part of the profile of the beer. This doesn't have as much cleaner, hence make it American. Lisa, think of that. But Matt, you tell me if I'm off

Unknown Speaker  15:29 
correctly. I mean, when we call a beer of American version of anything, you're dealing with American Hops, which are much different than European hops and that they impart more. piney resinous citrusy was a different grouping of flavors that are imparted by American hops. And

Brad Werner  15:46 
so as a beer judge, Jeff, how do you rate number three, the ESB

Jeff York  15:50 
dude, I haven't judged a beer competition in like 10 years. But it's still you got the fantastic I mean, you know, if, as an American ESB, I don't? I don't know if that's a style or not, I don't think it'd be like an embryo is what they put in.

Unknown Speaker  16:04 
To me. It's a hop Tambor, yeah, exactly. In a lot of ways. I mean,

Jeff York  16:08 
all their beers are fantastic. I mean, yeah. I mean, they'd all be like super high scoring.

Unknown Speaker  16:12 
I certainly don't know, but there may not be a American ESB style. Great American here. Yeah, there may

Jeff York  16:17 
be last time I was 10 years ago.

Brad Werner  16:20 
So does your staff ever have input into the style of beer that the Brewers make in Denver?

Unknown Speaker  16:26 
Our general staff, I wouldn't say has much to play in that we do include our staff in all areas of decision making in general, but with the beer, we have such a great brew staff that we let them handle that. Yeah.

Jeff York  16:40 
Is it fair to say it's color a con what you guys sell the most of maybe,

Unknown Speaker  16:44 
you know, depends on the pub. Yeah. The majority of the pub sell, FYI, Pa Ye is actually next. Yeah, that's the highest. Our raspberry wheat or Blackberry wheat is our highest selling brands down in Denver. Really? Yeah. Huh.

Brad Werner  16:59 
What do you make of that?

Unknown Speaker  17:01 
City Folk?

Jeff York  17:02 
Yeah, city, but Flatlander down there in Denver?

Brad Werner  17:08 
Did you just call Denver a cow town?

Jeff York  17:10 
Yeah. That you call Denver? I can't tell you. The guy from Chicago has always gotten Denver account. This is good. Well, this is just like, you know, to me, like the taste of Boulder brewery. Just like a pity IPA. Right. Great.

Brad Werner  17:29 
I'm still partial to number one, the Oktoberfest. I mean, that really resonated with me.

Unknown Speaker  17:33 
Like, well, this is our highest seller. So this is on tap all year. And most of these actually are or at least

Jeff York  17:40 
a few of them. The last one is not correct. This

Unknown Speaker  17:44 
FY pa stands for I'm not gonna curse but F Yes. Yes. Yeah. IPA. Love it. And yeah, this

Brad Werner  17:51 
actually remember that?

Jeff York  17:51 
Yeah. You guys. I mean, I don't know you do one or not. But there's not a hazy on the table. You guys.

Unknown Speaker  17:58 
Not a hazy on the table. There is a hazy on the wall, though. Cool. Yeah, that was our first hazy we've ever done.

Jeff York  18:03 
Yeah, no, I was just wondering if like you were one of the you were like the only brewery in America that managed to not make.

Unknown Speaker  18:10 
We lasted until about a month ago. Pretty good.

Jeff York  18:13 
That's as good as anyone's done. Because, I mean, I know a lot of breweries are kind of like over the whole hazy like thing, but it's just so people just want a hazy IPA as I can make it easy. They're

Unknown Speaker  18:23 
certainly asked for Yeah, stylistically we do tend to stick a little bit more to the right. thing. And

Jeff York  18:31 
fish fans. That was delicious. Alright, so you're talking about favorites? Bread? Yep. Monster number one. The actual number one. Oh, number one? Yes. Only because I like Belgian so much. But I like them all. It seems like people what's your favorite beer might be called beer. Why would you

Brad Werner  18:47 
have a favorite? It is amazing though. The different styles, different flavors that you can get out of beer. Oh, it really is incredible. It's the most

Jeff York  18:53  
incredibly flexible beverage like class have anything.

Unknown Speaker  18:55 
It's interesting, educating a staff on beer. And you're teaching them about all these notes that you're getting out of beer, whether that's grass or pine or Yep, or fruit or whatever. And once they understand that this is just simply coming from yeast and hops and malts. None of those insane is in most cases, none of those things

Jeff York  19:16 
are actually the beer. pumpkin beer where you add the pumpkin because of that great, great pumpkin flavor.

Brad Werner  19:24 
Yeah, go to your local Starbucks.

Unknown Speaker  19:27 
The Baltic Porter.

Jeff York  19:28 
Nice. Now that's not a style.

Unknown Speaker  19:31 
This is a so this is a darker Porter. Well, that's good, but it's brewed with a lager ease, so cleans it up really nice.

Jeff York  19:39 
So good. This is good. Yeah, I like this to get down to under the sun and get yourself a black Araya that is so good.

Brad Werner  19:46 
What about what about people coming in just for tastings is that a large majority of your clientele or

Unknown Speaker  19:51 
that was a much larger majority of our clientele pre COVID Really now, we do a lot of tourism business, particularly Pro st location, which is not open yet, we just haven't been able to staff to the levels that we need to. And it's a very small tight restaurant. Not ideal for any sort of capacity restrictions. That restaurant in particular was doing a lot, a lot of tastings. Gotcha. And upstairs and downstairs, these two restaurants here we were doing more when we were having a little more tourism. Yeah. So the locals know what they want JBf week we're doing a lot of tasters.

Jeff York  20:26 
And then the most famous month of the year, stout month. Yes. I

Unknown Speaker  20:35 
had to throw these last two in Yeah, in honor of step one. What is

Jeff York  20:40 
February if you don't know these things,

Unknown Speaker  20:43 
shortly, February is the slowest month for any restaurant. So to combat that the owners management long ago in the 90s decided, why don't we do something fun during February. So we made it stout month, we brew I want to say 30 Plus stout, it's just for the month. We have a ton of guest outs from breweries all across the country. So good, and it's by far our busiest month, the one from one of the busiest month. We're packed all day, every day. It's a total cult following. Yeah. We had a big thing. People cut their hair in the bullets. We do a chop competition where the staff and many customers would actually grow the biggest chops they can. At the end of the year, we'd have a big concert at the boulder theatre for charity and we'd have a competition for who could come up with the best character like chop Threepio for example, and one becomes mountainous on royalty.

Jeff York  21:42 
How can you not love?

Brad Werner  21:43 
How creative is that? I

Jeff York  21:44 
mean, that is going to come here since

Brad Werner  21:46 
we started but think about the creative thinking about taking your slowest month and making it into your busiest. Yeah, Jess was

Jeff York  21:53 
making 30 stouts is what? Yeah, that's an undertaker. Oh, Scout stout. It's my favorites. Like based on the Thin Mint Girl Scout cookie. I just love that beer so much. I can't have this for myself month. I think this was on carova

Unknown Speaker  22:07 
This is a longtime staple here. Milk stout.

Jeff York  22:11 
Ooh, that's awesome. Well, almost like a Scotch like finish on the back end. Yeah,

Brad Werner  22:16 
these are different man. Yeah, man.

Jeff York  22:19 
Yeah, nice sweetness. Back for stout month and do a podcast. I

Brad Werner  22:22 
think we should I love that.

Unknown Speaker  22:24 
We just pushed it to April this year. Oh, you did? Okay. Yeah. Okay, this coming year, you know, it's taking a little while to ramp up our brewing operations. That and stout month is an all year endeavor. So you start brewing for next month, right after February. So we weren't quite prepared to this year it will be in April, will return to tradition. There's something

Jeff York  22:43 
about being down on Pearl Street on like a really cold snowy night, like Tuesday night or like a really slow night while still prescribes a salad and going into mountain sun and like just trying as many styles as you can. I don't know. That's just sort of a tradition for me. It's glad to hear that Justice February for me.

Unknown Speaker  23:03 
I agree. It's a it's a nice, warm bill.

Jeff York  23:06 
A little bit. Brad's not sympathetic.

Unknown Speaker  23:08 
If you cry, I'm gonna cry.

Jeff York  23:10 
Oh, it's like it's a special thing, man. This is fantastic. Man. It is for you so much for joining us, like, so how is COVID Like if you guys be able to pivot out of it and be able to get things going again, because we're always worried about our local businesses and trying to support them as much as we can.

Unknown Speaker  23:25 
Honestly, it has been a greater challenge than we thought, hmm. We have a lot of momentum. And we're doing a great job in rebuilding our staffs. We're really grateful for the fact that we were lucky enough to own a couple of buildings that we have. I mean, we were around for 27 years before the pandemic and we had some serious institutional memory. We had a really strongly imbued culture throughout. And we were really lucky that a lot, a lot of us stuck around. And a lot of great employees are still here to teach and carry that forward. Yeah. But it has been a greater challenge to get staff. Yeah. than we thought. And training this many people at once is very difficult for our great I

Brad Werner  24:09 
was here last Saturday, there was a trainee, actually, with one of the waitresses, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  24:13 
we're really lucky that we have such a great relationship with our community and we want to do everything to support them. They're doing everything to support us. So it's a slower process. And we thought, like I said, two of our restaurants are still not open the mountain sun and Vine Street in Denver. Okay, so lunch is now open either. We're brewing there, but we're not open for service.

Jeff York  24:34 
Yeah, but still good do so that squares at least that square footage getting utilized when

Unknown Speaker  24:38 
you think of a restaurant, like Vine Street that's quite large. Yeah, you're probably talking I would say at least 8090 employees to get that really going up. And we just have a little bit of a problem hiring five or six employees down here. So so it's gonna be it's gonna take a while.

Brad Werner  24:56 
You know what though? The community supports you, right? You we all stick together through this All the things that we've seen in the last year, we're all in it together. And I think that every every time that I drive by here community still supporting you though,

Unknown Speaker  25:07 
we certainly feel that that's very palpable. They're here. We love them. We love seeing them. I remember the first few weeks of reopening the southern Sun upstairs was joyous. Yeah, there was like, everyone was really happy to see each other be out back in the world. Sure, drinkin FYI. It felt really

Jeff York  25:29 
it's just been awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for these awesome beers. If you can hear this you can get here come to under the sun. More Southern Star southern staff Blanca

Unknown Speaker  25:40 
peak in Longmont? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I forgot. That's the other one that's open, great.

Jeff York  25:44 
Get to one of those establishments, and you will taste some amazing beers, and you will meet some of the nicest people working anywhere in Colorado. Make sure you go out and support them. Thanks for having us. It's been great. Thanks.

Unknown Speaker  25:53 
Thank you very much.

Jeff York  25:55 
That's our pleasure. Thank you. Alright, so that concludes our tasting of beers here at under the sun. What do you think, Brad?

Brad Werner  26:04 
Well, first of all, I, the community spirit that you feel when you walk in here, and just the personality of the staff, the mats and the friendliness? Yeah, that's incredible.

Jeff York  26:14 
I mean, yeah, really, it really is like, amazing. There's better service here than literally any brewery I've ever been anywhere, or any restaurant for that matter. I mean, it's a casual place, but you feel like you're part of a family when you come here. I'm just excited to be

Brad Werner  26:28 
here. And you know that I'm not a sophisticated beer drinker. You are coming in here and doing a sampling afternoon and that type of thing. That's a blast.

Jeff York  26:36 
Yeah, absolutely, man. Good nerd try some beers. So I highly recommend black Araya the Baltic Porter. Holy cow. That's good.

Brad Werner  26:43 
Yeah. And I personally am all over the Oktoberfest. That's just you like what you like right now?

Jeff York  26:49 
And that's fine. Yeah. Anyway, to the one time I really didn't want Brad to read the paper at all. I really didn't. Because I have a special a special is this. Join us today for a special episode of Korean distillation. Those of you there to that in the 80s they had special editions, it was always about some kid using drugs on family. So nobody's gonna understand what the hell I'm talking about. I guess we should talk about the paper. So Brad actually did read the paper today. Enough for me the day I didn't want him to because I have a special thing plan. So Brad, why don't you introduce the paper introduce that you'll have the title that I do not have a title to the title, your thoughts? Today we are focusing this is a little bit interesting. So Brad, there's these things that we do that we that we we academics with because you know, it's a special episode of

Brad Werner  27:38 
creativeness. I thought maybe fish fan.

Jeff York  27:42 
There is an academic conference about fish, though, we should get to

Brad Werner  27:46 
know your on your own on that one.

Jeff York  27:47 
Oh my god. So there's a thing that academics do when they want to get together and explore a topic in depth called a special issue. So you have all these journals as you've become aware of that's very expensive, 4950 to 50 plus tax and shipping handling journals, they're out there and will happen is a group of people get together and say, Hey, let's do a special issue. So when you put together a special issue, you write an introduction to it. And you review the papers that are in your specialty. So these guys that wrote this paper we're talking about today are the editors of the specialist, okay. Usually it's people that have published a great many papers and have some standing in the field. And they get together and they say, we're gonna put this out, we're gonna add it. They're often editors at journals. But it's a special issue of strategic entrepreneurship journal called entrepreneurship at the crossroads meta analysis is a foundation a path forward. And so the article we're gonna be talking about, is he talking about a bunch of different papers as an introduction to special issue, but the Introduction The editors are James G comes to Russell crook, David J. Cochin. And Mike Wright. And so I'm gonna try to make sure I mentioned all the papers in this special issue, but may not as you can tell, so I'll do my best. But I've taken notes, Jeff, okay, I saw Brad write something down. That was exciting. So So go check it out. It actually is a really cool, special issue. So meta analysis. Right now, I've introduced the paper. What were your notes about the introduction of the paper, Brad, because this was pretty entertaining.

Brad Werner  29:12 
So actually, Jeff, I read the introduction, which is two or three paragraphs, I have two items that I selected out of there, number one that I took out of that paragraph. This is quote, by the way, difficult for entrepreneurs to leverage academic findings. Yes.

Jeff York  29:25 
So you agree with that, right?

Brad Werner  29:27 
How do you not agree with that? Well, I

Jeff York  29:29 
mean, many people, yes. I mean, here's the thing, like, I thought you would like this article, because these guys are saying what you're always saying is like, Yeah, but da. But most people don't. But you gotta understand, Brad, a lot of researchers don't believe that. They think like, oh, this is just fine. The way we're going along this right. And

Brad Werner  29:45 
then if we can help them focus, yeah, so yeah, I have 100% agree with this, that it's difficult for entrepreneurs to leverage academic findings. We haven't found that many academic findings that actually apply to entrepreneurs, but that's a whole different podcast, but

Jeff York  29:58 
no, no Because today's podcast is a special episode. Alright, so we got some feedback from the director of the Dimmick Sarah that we should have actionable insights every what's the cadence every 20 minutes,

Brad Werner  30:10 
three takeaways, three takeaway. And then one major action, action once I do

Jeff York  30:14 
I got not one braid I got through my second Oh, no, but then we were just gonna skip that.

Brad Werner  30:19 
But go ahead. No second bullet points, right. much about works in traditional organizations is likely to work quite differently in entrepreneurial environments. Yes, da, da. Yeah. Right.

Jeff York  30:31 
But again, Brad, these gentlemen that wrote this paper and put together a special issue who you're not, you know, I know you're making fun, but but really, I mean, they these are really good scholars. These are folks who have control. Yeah, of course. And that's not taken for granted. In the field of strategy.

Brad Werner  30:48 
It blows me away. And that crazy.

Jeff York  30:52 
Actually, folks out there and doubting, maybe that would argue, yeah, entrepreneurship is just another, why would we need that we have strategy. We have organizational behavior. Why is entrepreneurship appealed?

Brad Werner  31:03 
I think we scare him. I actually do.

Jeff York  31:06 
Well, that's actually that, but that is a topic for a different pocket. Yeah. But okay. So what I want to do today, something totally different. Okay, get ready, we're going to do a quiz. So rather than going through the insights in this paper, and they're all in there, okay, what happens is, there are five papers or meta analyses in this special issue. A meta analysis simply means people go out and they get all the papers that were ever written about a topic. They put them together to do quantitative statistical analysis to tease out insights from them that are generalizable. And I mean, yeah, this is

Brad Werner  31:37 
mansplaining. Once a meta analysis,

Jeff York  31:40 
why do we care about meta knows bottom line

Brad Werner  31:42 
is you take a very, very broad range of data, and how does it apply to specific cases?

Jeff York  31:47 
Right? But why is it better than like a single study? Oh, come on, because

Brad Werner  31:51 
it's not significant, right? You can have you can have so many variables with individual significant studies that you need a group of studies to actually give you some sort of direction perfect. And

Jeff York  32:00 
they took a little bit of a specific lens towards meta analysis in this special case, where they compared entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial firms, to managers, employees and non entrepreneurial organizations, existing organization. So let me get my buzzer right here. Okay, so here we go. How much time do I love that? Yeah. As much time as you as you, like, the submarine is going down. So So Brad, yes, sir. Tell me this, which is a bigger driver of success for employees and managers.

Brad Werner  32:28 
Okay, so wait a second. We're talking plays a manager? Manage firms. Yeah, of

Jeff York  32:31 
large firms are no, no. But every hire you want the general mental ability or emotional intelligence, I would say

Brad Werner  32:38 
number one, general mental ability

Jeff York  32:43 
actually access Correct.

Brad Werner  32:49 
Anyway, okay, first of all, let me just say how many managers have you met in large organizations with any emotional intelligence? Ah,

Jeff York  32:58 
not not many. Right. And usually they do stand out because that was a gimme question. Okay. Okay. So, so, okay, but more importantly, how about for entrepreneurs?

Brad Werner  33:07 
Emotional intelligence is the key.

Jeff York  33:11 
Most my clapping Yeah, that's correct. actionable insight, actionable insight. It is more important for entrepreneurs to understand how to work with people and understand and have empathy for them than it is for them to have general intelligence.

Brad Werner  33:27 
I totally agree. I mean, and I think that that's common sense. I hope it's common sense.

Jeff York  33:31 
Common Sense, Brad. That's like, that's something that you know, the people look at Steve Jobs and Elon Musk is Oh, that guy's a freakin genius. I think Elon Musk has any emotion whatsoever. I

Brad Werner  33:40 
do like it that he smokes weed occasionally with Sure. TV, right? Yeah. All seriousness though, I actually pushed my students to understand that about themselves to lead with empathy, and understanding. And if you and if you live your life like that people will stick with you for forever.

Jeff York  33:56 
That's true. It's actually probably good advice for managers. But here's what's interesting. The meta analysis shows that general mental ability is actually more important for success for managers employees in a large organization. Yeah. So this is a really, I mean, you know, I know we kid around Eliza doesn't usually what you get, or I think most of this stuff is useful for entrepreneurs and others, but but I think this is actually pretty useful because our students don't necessarily come into

Brad Werner  34:22 
Yeah, so let's just talk about a large organizations. Is that a cultural issue?

Jeff York  34:25 
I don't know. They don't get into that. But I wonder if it's more that like, because there's an existing structure and path dependency all around you and really to figure out how to succeed in a large organization. It's basically like, in my humble opinion, learning to play survivor, which actually requires a lack of emotional intelligence really gotta be ruthless. Yeah, exactly. Whereas I feel like for entrepreneurs, if they can't relate to people, no matter how brilliant they are, and we see this all the time in like, aerospace are

Brad Werner  34:55 
brilliant in their their lane. Yeah, we have we have brilliant PhDs

Jeff York  34:57 
in chemistry and robotics. and everything else at University of Colorado, and we bring them in our classes and we really need to put them together with like an MBA. Not that all MBAs have. But many have good a diverse team. Right, Jeff? Diversity. Right. So I think this is actually I mean, would you agree that is an actionable insight? 100%.

Brad Werner  35:15 
Okay. Yeah, we got ya pulled one out of me. Yeah. Thank you. I'll give myself a hand.

Jeff York  35:21 
Yes. Okay. Um, the next question, how does stress affect employees and managers? Is it negative impact on them or positive impact?

Brad Werner  35:30 
Well, first of all, we're still talking about a large organization employs managers in large organizations under stress is negatively effect some of course, yeah,

Jeff York  35:37 
absolutely. I don't have the clapping thing. Well done. Well done, Brett. I can't. Competent I am, I can't make my phone clap. I can only make it but

Brad Werner  35:49 
I do like the Hunt for Red October buzzer

Jeff York  35:52 
come take a class from me and a man who cannot make his iPhone clap. Alright, so now what is the impact of stress on entrepreneurs? Super negative.

Brad Werner  36:02 
So I would say actually, for me, it was a motivating factor. But I can't speak for all entrepreneurs. But I'm gonna say stress actually is a it's a part of being an entrepreneur. So I would say they embrace it.

Jeff York  36:15 
You're right, mostly. So it's actually positive to neutral for entrepreneurs. So you're right, of course. But this is interesting, because a man analysis teases out some more specific effects, heavy demands, and long hours don't hurt entrepreneurs. It doesn't hurt their performance, as you would expect, right? They're putting more into it. And they're the only person there. But it also doesn't hurt their well being. However, role ambiguity does hurt them. So we've got two kinds of stress gone. One is just from working hard. The other is for lack of ambiguity about what your role is. Yeah. But interesting, the role ambiguity harms their well being but doesn't actually harm their performance, both kinds of stress harm employees, actually, I

Brad Werner  36:56 
think that if you embrace uncertainty, I think you'll do much better, right? If you know what's coming, right, versus it creeping up on you and say, I'm not sure where I fit or what I want to do. I think that there are methods to get around that to help you actually make money. I

Jeff York  37:09 
think so too. I think what's happening here is related to a study, I'd love to get Aaron Powell on here. At some point. She's an amazing scholar, that does studies of entrepreneurial teams, I forum will get her on here, you'll really like her. Okay, great. But she did this study where she showed that people really get stressed out when there aren't clear delineations of roles as a company grows.

Brad Werner  37:31 
I think you could train that into people, though. Yeah, early on,

Jeff York  37:34 
okay with it. But as the company starts to grow, and I wonder if that's driving the effect here, it's like you and I started company, at first, hey, it's just Brad and just company, we're doing everything. But eventually we're going to need to carve up tasks and ambiguity in the roles is going to be discussed. I think that's why a lot of

Brad Werner  37:48 
founders leave their company. I've actually lived that, Jeff, cool.

Jeff York  37:51 
I figured you had Yeah. Alright. So you, I'll give you that one. You are two for two. Brad is just as I expected here. Question number three, do entrepreneurs that receive corporate venture capital do better or worse, in terms of their one performance and exit? And to technological innovation? So if they received corporate venture capital forever, they do better in terms

Brad Werner  38:12 
of performance and exit performance and exit? Yes. And what was the second one? Technological innovation? I am not certain about that, actually. Okay. Fair

Jeff York  38:21 
enough. I won't budge you for that. You're right. Here's what's interesting. If you look at this, they're like mixed results on the effects of corporate venture capital. And what the folks that do this meta analysis do is they say, it's actually because you're looking at multiple dependent variables, right. And so saying what's better or worse, it depends on what your dependent variable is, which is why we have mixed results. It turns out receiving corporate venture capital, they do better in performance and exit, just as you'd expect. They get access to companies with deep knowledge, deep resource deep pockets. They're variable, their forum, they have a buffer, they're able to exit. That's right. But they do worse in innovation. And here's the theory why. And I'm sorry, I'm not attributing this to folks go read this. Actually, Jeff. Well, fantastic, I find something that is interesting to you. Besides, besides the beer, they do worse in innovation, the ideas, okay, so we have an innovative company with a patent pending technology, we take corporate venture capital, the idea is that when we take that corporate venture capital, the company that's investing in us is not investing because of the company. They're investing because our innovation, which they consequentially are going to focus all of our efforts on and then suck up and utilize.

Brad Werner  39:30 
So I think it's very interesting. And I would say the takeaway for entrepreneurs is early on when you're starting your company, you need to make a decision about which way do you want to go? Are you doing this for an exit, right five year plan? Or is this something that maybe would be multi generational with your family and those types of things? Yeah. And those decisions early on, make a big difference in are quite different paths

Jeff York  39:49 
forward. This is what I always talk about. And my guests, their venture capitalists, I strongly disagree and we would love to add anybody from the venture capital community on here to talk about why they would disagree with I could bring a bunch of them likenesses, I know you could, but what I was gonna say is like the day you decide to take venture capitalist day you decide to sell your company.

Brad Werner  40:06 
That's right. Because the five year clock is going,

Jeff York  40:09 
you have basically decided that we're not going to keep this company going beyond a certain period of time, and we are going to have to sell it. And so that's something you really need to think about. And here's our actionable insight right here. Alright, there it is, every 20 minutes, we're gonna have an actionable insight. There. I had one, I didn't have the ding dong going. Okay. So corporate venture capital is better taken by firms that are not dependent on their innovations for success. Because if you're really dependent on your innovation the day you take corporate venture capitalist day, you more or less, I mean, I know that's not what said, and then NDA, is that what it said in the corporate? Right? He basically decided to sell that innovation.

Brad Werner  40:48 
And I would say that a lot of times when you're talking and taking on VC capital, they already may have a match for you in their head. Yeah, right.

Jeff York  40:56 
Right. Especially a corporate Oh, yeah, we're in the match. So I think that's an actionable insight. I think if you're in a company that, you know, really does not depend on a potentially technological innovation or anything like that corporate venture capital might be pretty interest because it might be right. It might be the company's just trying

Brad Werner  41:09 
to display but you lose control that data. Yeah, you do a lot of control,

Jeff York  41:13 
I should say you do. But if your goal is to exit, it's the right move. Alright, cool. Awesome. Brad is kicking ass. Just as I expected, I expected nothing less. So question number four, evaluate each one of these questions is based on one study in the special issue. Core, what is more important for driving performance under agglomeration? Right, so you're familiar with the idea of agglomeration? I am not I'm really okay. I'm surprised but the agglomeration is just a fancy term for a cluster, okay. Like, you know, Boulder would have agglomeration and organic and natural foods got renewable energy tech, okay, you know, all right. So what is more important for driving performance under agglomeration or in clusters, supply side skilled workers and knowledge? So the theory there being like, okay, because you come to Boulder or wherever, and you're starting this kind of company, you got skilled workers knowledge spillover via university with Exactly, yeah. Or is it demand side? There's lots of customers in that area.

Brad Werner  42:09 
Think about this one for a second. Sure. But I think it's a little I actually think it's a little of both. Okay, I think it's more of the supply side, though. If I have to pick one. Do I get buzzed?

Jeff York  42:19 
Here we go. There we go. Yeah, actually, no. Yeah. Supply side. And

Brad Werner  42:24 
by the way, let me just let me just say my reasoning, though.

Jeff York  42:29 
You're actually right.

Brad Werner  42:32 
I was using boulder as an example in my head. I'm sorry. They're both important. Yeah. But I do think that when you're talking about those early customers, you want those in your backyard.

Jeff York  42:42 
Yeah. Now here's what changed. Okay, I really, genuinely can buzz that. Okay, start with the man analysis shows? Well, they might be wrong. They will. They might be but they did a meta analysis. And you said Here drink a beer. And

Brad Werner  42:56 
we might want

Jeff York  42:59 
to get these guys going one on one. Alright. So I think this is really interesting. The supply side skilled workers and knowledge is definitely predictive of driving innovation. Makes sense? I mean, that's the whole argument. If I can get skilled workers in my industry, I can get the demand side, lots of customers are actually agglomeration both supply and demand has no impact on financial performance. I think that's fascinating. Because I always think there's blows me away. I know, me, too. I'm kind of surprised by this one. I mean, I'm trusting in this day, from what I can tell these studies were very well done. Okay, that's fine.

Brad Werner  43:34 
That's fine. That's why That's why Yeah, no, this is interesting. But I want to talk about this for a second. Do you buy that?

Jeff York  43:38 
I don't have any reason to doubt the study. And they did. I mean, they took the LD says appendix

Brad Werner  43:42 
that one, I'd like to learn more.

Jeff York  43:44 
Okay, so we'll look at that one. Maybe we'll get these folks on. And yes, next time, I'm sure. I mean, it'd be great. Actually, I think this actually, that relates to the studies are well done. This one's the most interesting because it's kind of like a surprise to be up. And here's even more interesting. This one, I understand. agglomeration actually has a negative impact on growth. I buy that.

Brad Werner  44:04 
I actually do too, but I'm looking at it in a different way. Let's just use the boulder food scene as an example. Right. We're both familiar with. Yeah. So agglomeration in our town, right of those types of businesses. Absolutely. And I would say that the VC world looks at these folks that need 100% growth a year to be investable, at least. Right. But I wonder what poaching happens, right? If you get similar businesses, I'm a little bit confused on how to articulate this. But I am a little bit confused on that finding truthfully,

Jeff York  44:34 
well, it's surprising. I think I understand the negative impact on growth. So let's say you and I start Brad and Jeff's organic brewing supplies, okay, and we move here to Boulder right now, on the plus side, we can get people that are really familiar with organic certification, we can get workers who are gonna be passionate about the organic foods industry, as evidenced by our 20 some odd episodes. The podcast we get people passionate about season three, season three episodes. To hear of creative destruction brought to you by The Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the Leeds School of Business at the University of Colorado Boulder, and we got one more actionable insight coming. I hope it hasn't been 20 minutes, right o'clock here. But here's the problem. Because we moved to Boulder, we are competing for those resources with all these other startups are also looking to target those same people. And people are focusing resources into the most promising bets here in town. So we're not the most promising bet, because I can tell you right now, organic brewing supplies is not going to compete with the next Justin butters, like the average consumer goods that's targeting people, people that are making beer are not necessarily thinking about their health. They're just obvious.

Brad Werner  45:41 
Let me counter though. Okay, sure. Early adopters, right, you're looking for the early adopter scene. I think that when you talk about consumers that expect new products to come out, they're willing to try. Yeah, so I do think that it may give you an edge in that respect,

Jeff York  45:56 
but not according to this study.

Brad Werner  46:00 
You see my point, though, about in a sense, a sophisticated buyer,

Jeff York  46:03 
but do you think it really matters? I do, actually. Really? Yes. I mean, we're selling that product, we're not gonna be a selling it locally. I mean, no,

Brad Werner  46:11 
but you need to get that feedback loop early. And you can get it that way. And other other places, it's much more difficult.

Jeff York  46:18 
I mean, I think here in town, when I think about that, think about like, getting into local, like food stores and things like that and going to farmers markets, and all those kinds of things that can that can be really helpful. Yeah, that early feedback is critical. Yeah, I agree. Okay, here we go. actionable insight. And Somebody's at the door. Yeah. Now, that's the actionable insight coming in the door, like, you know, let you know, it's here. Come on, man. So according to this, it would say young ventures and high tech benefit more from agglomeration than those are not. I think that I mean, that's what we would take from this paper. Brad doesn't quite buy it. But fair enough. That's that's the insight you can take from this, you know, and I could definitely see there being a tendency. I see as a my own research, I might talk about it specifically for Well, I guess I am talking about for businesses want to collaborate with people that have the similar lightcap moral right. Ooh, big like that. I don't think that's

Brad Werner  47:11 
what about you talk about agglomeration in high tech, though, you're talking about that's a funding hub as well. So that also may be a little bit different, right. So you're talking to customers, but they measure

Jeff York  47:20 
specifically the skilled workers and knowledge here is the driver and that's the one they find the statistically significant relationship, right. Well,

Brad Werner  47:27 
they'll agree to disagree. Well,

Jeff York  47:28 
that's fair enough. Question number five. Our last question. I know this is actually very topical in your class. Okay. What is more important for entrepreneurs for idea generation? So not not for financial success? Just generating ideas?

Brad Werner  47:41 
Didn't we talk about this in a previous podcast?

Jeff York  47:43 
I don't remember but probably we'd we did. What we we

Brad Werner  47:48 
marijuana.

Jeff York  47:48 
So though we did but this this study was not about weed. General human capital. In other words, just education level, or specific human capital experience and knowledge of a specific area?

Brad Werner  47:58 
Yeah, I would say be

Jeff York  48:00 
you to be yes. No, that's wrong, Brad. I'm afraid it's a both Haha.

Brad Werner  48:09 
Yeah, I got a pitch for these guys. Okay, but that is a special paper. I'd like to see an unspecial paper. Come on. Now.

Jeff York  48:17 
This is what's interesting here. Okay. So they both actually are important for generating ideas. Okay. But specific human capital is the only part that matters for them actually forming the belief that the idea is viable.

Brad Werner  48:30 
Okay, so maybe I gotta get a 50%. Oh, you know,

Jeff York  48:33 
yeah, you get 50%. I'm just screwing around. Yeah. So yeah. Oh, no. No, I do I actually thought Great. Okay, you think?

Brad Werner  48:46 
So the Insight is, when you're talking about a very technical specific issue, problem solve, that actually makes total sense that you need the expertise of the people that are brilliant in their lanes to help solve the problem. But you also need more generalists to allowing a capable execution? Yeah,

Jeff York  49:05 
I think that's right. Yeah, I think it makes sense. Like, okay, so if you're, I think the real acumen side of take care is like, yes, getting an education is useful. But it's Hello, despite the efforts of many in our country, going to college and getting a degree is useful in your eyes, and educates you to see opportunities that you might not see otherwise, you're exposed to other ideas and all that

Brad Werner  49:26 
good stuff. But I would say specifically, a liberal arts education is very useful. Yeah,

Jeff York  49:30 
I would say that too, even though we both are working at a business school. But yeah, no, I think we agree. 100%. Like, you know, getting a broad education is really important. But to figure out if your idea is actually going to work, you need to get some very specific knowledge of that area. Yes. Yeah. So this is why I think it's so important, and we don't talk about this in theoretical terms. But I think it's important that entrepreneurs think about doing things in spaces they know something about Yeah, hell we know, I know, but right but like, how many how many people do you see like, Brad, let me tell you But my great idea. Yeah, that's a great idea for Google. Yeah. Terrible idea for you. That's right. If we're talking to someone about about like that you were just talking about, and both of us like drinking beer, and we're going to start our brewing supply company. So what Yeah, right. Well, yeah. I like watching hockey, so I'm going to get better hockey equipment like, no, that doesn't work that way. You got to actually know something. All right, Brad. So I would say you were at least three and a half for five, maybe, maybe maybe two for five? I don't know. Something like that.

Brad Werner  50:30 
I would think I'm six or five.

Jeff York  50:31 
I think you I think you are, I think I think you blew the acid out of this test, as I said, but

Brad Werner  50:35 
I appreciate the test. And I haven't had it tested a long time. So this felt good. Hope you had fun.

Jeff York  50:39 
I thought it would be it was great. It was great. So again, if you enjoyed our pop quiz, you wanna check out the paper for yourself, which I do highly recommend. Check out the introduction, we're gonna be having an author's paper number four on here, which I won't look up right now, because we're already running over time, I'm sure. But the paper and the special issue is strategic entrepreneurship journal, entrepreneurship at a crossroads meta analysis as a foundation path toward the summary article interviewed by James combs, Russell Cook, Dave, Kevin, and Mike. Right. So

Brad Werner  51:06 
awesome. So thanks, fellows, Jan.

Jeff York  51:08 
Oh, you drink your October 1. I love working on mine. This was fantastic. Thank you so much under the sun. Thanks very much to Matt rally for having us here. It's been fantastic. Thanks to our producer Joel is always thanks to the Demmings enterprise, for bringing us to please write to us at CD podcast@colorado.edu. And if you want to help us out, just like the podcast, click the little button. Wherever you're listening to podcasts. Yeah, it doesn't take long click the little Like button. If you really want to help us out with this very special edition of screen distillation. Then what you need to do is you need to write a review and it could it could be as short as man, Jeff is so smart. And Brad is just so annoying. Why don't we just have a podcast with Jeff that'd be a great review to write.

Brad Werner  51:47 
And I would also add, Jeff, that people would actually like us to answer a question or shoot us an email. It'd be it'd be fun,

Jeff York  51:54 
and we're more than happy. If you're in the area. We can come to you. We're more than happy to have you on the podcast if you're interested. Yeah, be great. All right. Cheers. Cheers, man. Take care. All right. Make sure you come and visit under the sun.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai